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> His problem is that he thinks they're strange for not just offering more money I don't think he thinks they're strange, he's just surprised. When you visit F

> His problem is that he thinks they're strange for not just offering more money I don't think he thinks they're strange, he's just surprised. When you visit France and can buy high quality wine for half the cost that you get in the U.S., it's surprising. When you go to Singapore and see that housing can often be more expensive than luxury apartments in NYC, it's surprising. Similarly, when you go to Japan and see people doing the same thing you do, but making 30%+ less, it's surprising. Maybe the cost of living and government provided social services make up for some of this difference, maybe they don't. But having some initial sticker shock in the price differential can be pretty natural. If he has a problem, it's that he thinks a unit of work should be valued equally , i.e., if I do X, it should be universally valued at $Y. It's a nice thought, and I'd like to wish it was true, but it's not how our economy works. The value of X is not intrinsic, it's based on what someone is willing to pay for it. Coal mining in the U.S. in the 1950s provided a solid middle class foundation, but the same job today does not. Beethoven is clearly a better musician than most pop music, but few today would shell out money to listen to his music, while they would for many popular artists. Hopefully from this, he can realize how lucky he is to have access to a country which, for a variety of reasons, values this type of production more than other places in the world.

fiblye 8y ago
It’s really not that programmers are more “valued” and everyone who isn’t paying them enough money to buy a new house yearly isn’t properly appreciating them. It’s that one country can afford to pay more, and it’s partly enabled by a massive wealth disparity. Being surprised is strange. It’s like being surprised that people get paid less in Poland and that companies won’t pay as much for a programmer there. Nobody has the money to pay for $300000/year programmers in Poland. It’s the same virtually everywhere except incredibly expensive corners of the world, like parts of America and Switzerland.
- threatofrain 8y ago
  For the same reason that China is trouncing Taiwan in tech hiring, you need to beat your competitors. What's reasonable to give to someone else to make them do what you want depends on what your competitors do. Framing it as "think of what another Japanese person would be making" is all wrong. We can say the exact same thing about Taiwan, and we surely wouldn't say the way for Taiwan to move forward is to tell candidates, "You just don't understand Taiwan. It has a very different way of life." Those candidates will understand Chinese money, the same way this person understood American money.
  - fiblye 8y ago
    Taiwan is also an absolutely tiny economy compared to China. That money has to come from somewhere. In the case of many countries, it means paying most workers peanuts while paying someone else 10x as much. Some on HN are okay with massive wealth disparity and think it’s great for some international programmer to be valued far more than any local just because they worked at a company like Facebook. Some countries, like Taiwan and Japan, aren’t on that train.
    - threatofrain 8y ago
      And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.
      - fiblye 8y ago
        How’s it an excuse? Hey, Afghanis and Sudanese people out there, want to fix your country? Just quit being poor. Pay money that you don’t have. It’s what the two largest, most powerful, wealthiest countries in the world do, so why can’t you? No excuse not to pay them the same as a Silicon Valley startup getting funding that dwarfs your GDP. Aside from throwing people out on the streets and cutting wages for the middle class in order to support some yuppie JavaScript coders from another country, it’s not economically possible to just poof money into existence to pay ridiculous wages. I mean yeah, America does it and that works for some people here. Most people despise that.
        threatofrain 8y ago
        What people should despise is losing their best and brightest to companies overseas. You're talking about immigration, but that doesn't make a brain drain.
        VRay 8y ago
        You're looking at the economy and business in general completely wrong. You have a SERIOUS fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. There isn't a fixed pool of X trillion dollars per year for all companies and government agencies to split up among workers. If a company gives $300k to some guy in Silicon Valley, he'll turn around and give it to other people providing him with goods and services. They in turn spend the money on things they need.

fiblye 8y ago

It’s really not that programmers are more “valued” and everyone who isn’t paying them enough money to buy a new house yearly isn’t properly appreciating them. It’s that one country can afford to pay more, and it’s partly enabled by a massive wealth disparity. Being surprised is strange. It’s like being surprised that people get paid less in Poland and that companies won’t pay as much for a programmer there. Nobody has the money to pay for $300000/year programmers in Poland. It’s the same virtually everywhere except incredibly expensive corners of the world, like parts of America and Switzerland.

threatofrain 8y ago
For the same reason that China is trouncing Taiwan in tech hiring, you need to beat your competitors. What's reasonable to give to someone else to make them do what you want depends on what your competitors do. Framing it as "think of what another Japanese person would be making" is all wrong. We can say the exact same thing about Taiwan, and we surely wouldn't say the way for Taiwan to move forward is to tell candidates, "You just don't understand Taiwan. It has a very different way of life." Those candidates will understand Chinese money, the same way this person understood American money.
- fiblye 8y ago
  Taiwan is also an absolutely tiny economy compared to China. That money has to come from somewhere. In the case of many countries, it means paying most workers peanuts while paying someone else 10x as much. Some on HN are okay with massive wealth disparity and think it’s great for some international programmer to be valued far more than any local just because they worked at a company like Facebook. Some countries, like Taiwan and Japan, aren’t on that train.
  - threatofrain 8y ago
    And that's why Taiwan is in a brain drain to China and the US. Chinese companies don't need to make the same excuses as Taiwanese companies when it comes to money.
    - fiblye 8y ago
      How’s it an excuse? Hey, Afghanis and Sudanese people out there, want to fix your country? Just quit being poor. Pay money that you don’t have. It’s what the two largest, most powerful, wealthiest countries in the world do, so why can’t you? No excuse not to pay them the same as a Silicon Valley startup getting funding that dwarfs your GDP. Aside from throwing people out on the streets and cutting wages for the middle class in order to support some yuppie JavaScript coders from another country, it’s not economically possible to just poof money into existence to pay ridiculous wages. I mean yeah, America does it and that works for some people here. Most people despise that.
      - threatofrain 8y ago
        What people should despise is losing their best and brightest to companies overseas. You're talking about immigration, but that doesn't make a brain drain.
      - VRay 8y ago
        You're looking at the economy and business in general completely wrong. You have a SERIOUS fundamental misunderstanding of how it works. There isn't a fixed pool of X trillion dollars per year for all companies and government agencies to split up among workers. If a company gives $300k to some guy in Silicon Valley, he'll turn around and give it to other people providing him with goods and services. They in turn spend the money on things they need.