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> it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. At least in the US, I think you'd be underestimating how much one can

> it is my only vehicle, which is why I went the hybrid rather than full electric route. At least in the US, I think you'd be underestimating how much one can rely on a proper fully electric vehicle (i.e. a Tesla, and perhaps Bolt?). I doubt a Model 3 LR holder would ever need a second sedan.

michaelt 8y ago
At least in my country, two years ago (presumably when avs733 was buying his car) if you wanted an all-electric vehicle with >150 mile range, you had to spend £90,000 on a Tesla Model S. All the other manufacturers' cars (Renault Zoe, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf) were 145 mile range or less. It's only recently that EVs like the Hyundai Kona (£30k for 245 miles) and the Jaguar I-Pace (£61k for 235 miles) have come on the market.
- jononor 8y ago
  150 versus 145 miles is nothing. Why is 150 of all numbers the requirement?
  - michaelt 8y ago
    Perhaps I wasn't clear, what I mean to say is "If you wish to buy a new all-electric car and, after taking taking into account your mix of city and highway driving; how closely you believe your driving will match the different range testing standards; availability and speed of charging along your route and at your destination; different speeds of charging with different battery sizes and at different battery charge levels; anticipated battery degradation with usage; expected passenger and luggage weight; extra range 'safety margin'; and the uncertainty of your needs over the planned duration of car ownership; your single charge range requirement is greater than 145 miles and less than 315 miles, a Tesla model S or X with a price of £89k-£134k was your only option; and if your range requirement was greater than that there was nothing on the market whatsoever" Saying ">150 miles" was simply me being succinct.
- Marazan 8y ago
  Greater than 150, as in significantly greater than
- tomatocracy 8y ago
  And even then the model S's range isn't enough. I do a 500 mile weekend roundtrip about once every couple of months and there's no way it would work for that as there's no place to charge overnight at the destination (250 miles away from home, which I do non-stop on a single tank of fuel). There are basically no fast chargers in the UK which you could guarantee being able to use on the route either, even if I didn't mind having to stop (which I do). This isn't a long journey for the UK, which is not a big country. The only way I could realistically own a pure EV as an only car would be to hire another car for these journeys and use an EV for shorter journeys but an EV wouldn't really be worth it money-wise just for shorter trips and I'd have to put up with an underpowered hire car and the hassle of picking up and returning for the long ones. Hybrids (not range-extenders like the i3) on the other hand do make sense and I suspect will see much better sales as people realise they don't all look like the (very ugly) Prius.
  - cptskippy 8y ago
    Honestly I feel these types of comments do more harm to EV adoption than anything else as they're used as justification to not adopt an EV by those who otherwise could. Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. I think the biggest issue today is the exclusivity of charge networks and proprietary chargers. I don't know your specific route but there are plenty of routes in the UK that can easily be done. Brighton to Inverness and back can be done in a Model 3 with only 5 hours of charging along the way. Not great but also not horrible if they can be combined with regular rest stops. In the US the charge networks were initially rolled out at odd locations that didn't make much sense but gradually they started putting them in office and apartment car parks and now thankfully in malls and retail areas where people actually go. I still don't understand why restaurants haven't adopted them more when you have a captive audience for 15+ minutes and can upsell meals by offering charging discounts. I guess as adoption climbs they might catch on.
    - dragonwriter 8y ago
      > Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot Because it is a lot > but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. Which would be great, but that's generally not what the charging infrastructure is like today; there's now a decent probability of a route-convenient charger on a long trip, but there's not a great probability that it's in the parking lot of market or restaurant, and an even lower probability that it's one that you would have chosen but for the charger. Most of the market/restaurant chargers—mostly supermarkets or box stores like IKEA—I've seen are in urban areas, virtually none in the kind of places that are places you need to stop for fuel (or charge, with an EV) on the way between widely spaced urban areas.
avs733 8y ago
If I had a full electric vehicle my second car would be a cheap old off road truck. My major 'use' of the car when I leave town is to go deep in the wilderness for backpacking or camping. Even with the TM3 (which, honestly I wouldn't buy a Tesla) the range would be pushing it for the places I prefer to go.

michaelt 8y ago

At least in my country, two years ago (presumably when avs733 was buying his car) if you wanted an all-electric vehicle with >150 mile range, you had to spend £90,000 on a Tesla Model S. All the other manufacturers' cars (Renault Zoe, BMW i3, Nissan Leaf, VW e-Golf) were 145 mile range or less. It's only recently that EVs like the Hyundai Kona (£30k for 245 miles) and the Jaguar I-Pace (£61k for 235 miles) have come on the market.

jononor 8y ago
150 versus 145 miles is nothing. Why is 150 of all numbers the requirement?
- michaelt 8y ago
  Perhaps I wasn't clear, what I mean to say is "If you wish to buy a new all-electric car and, after taking taking into account your mix of city and highway driving; how closely you believe your driving will match the different range testing standards; availability and speed of charging along your route and at your destination; different speeds of charging with different battery sizes and at different battery charge levels; anticipated battery degradation with usage; expected passenger and luggage weight; extra range 'safety margin'; and the uncertainty of your needs over the planned duration of car ownership; your single charge range requirement is greater than 145 miles and less than 315 miles, a Tesla model S or X with a price of £89k-£134k was your only option; and if your range requirement was greater than that there was nothing on the market whatsoever" Saying ">150 miles" was simply me being succinct.
Marazan 8y ago
Greater than 150, as in significantly greater than
tomatocracy 8y ago
And even then the model S's range isn't enough. I do a 500 mile weekend roundtrip about once every couple of months and there's no way it would work for that as there's no place to charge overnight at the destination (250 miles away from home, which I do non-stop on a single tank of fuel). There are basically no fast chargers in the UK which you could guarantee being able to use on the route either, even if I didn't mind having to stop (which I do). This isn't a long journey for the UK, which is not a big country. The only way I could realistically own a pure EV as an only car would be to hire another car for these journeys and use an EV for shorter journeys but an EV wouldn't really be worth it money-wise just for shorter trips and I'd have to put up with an underpowered hire car and the hassle of picking up and returning for the long ones. Hybrids (not range-extenders like the i3) on the other hand do make sense and I suspect will see much better sales as people realise they don't all look like the (very ugly) Prius.
- cptskippy 8y ago
  Honestly I feel these types of comments do more harm to EV adoption than anything else as they're used as justification to not adopt an EV by those who otherwise could. Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. I think the biggest issue today is the exclusivity of charge networks and proprietary chargers. I don't know your specific route but there are plenty of routes in the UK that can easily be done. Brighton to Inverness and back can be done in a Model 3 with only 5 hours of charging along the way. Not great but also not horrible if they can be combined with regular rest stops. In the US the charge networks were initially rolled out at odd locations that didn't make much sense but gradually they started putting them in office and apartment car parks and now thankfully in malls and retail areas where people actually go. I still don't understand why restaurants haven't adopted them more when you have a captive audience for 15+ minutes and can upsell meals by offering charging discounts. I guess as adoption climbs they might catch on.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > Most EVs today support a flavor of DC fast charging beyond L2, a Leaf can be charged up to 80% in like 15 or 20 minutes. That sounds like a lot Because it is a lot > but when those chargers are in Market or Restaurant lots where you can charge and shop/eat then they make sense. Which would be great, but that's generally not what the charging infrastructure is like today; there's now a decent probability of a route-convenient charger on a long trip, but there's not a great probability that it's in the parking lot of market or restaurant, and an even lower probability that it's one that you would have chosen but for the charger. Most of the market/restaurant chargers—mostly supermarkets or box stores like IKEA—I've seen are in urban areas, virtually none in the kind of places that are places you need to stop for fuel (or charge, with an EV) on the way between widely spaced urban areas.

avs733 8y ago

If I had a full electric vehicle my second car would be a cheap old off road truck. My major 'use' of the car when I leave town is to go deep in the wilderness for backpacking or camping. Even with the TM3 (which, honestly I wouldn't buy a Tesla) the range would be pushing it for the places I prefer to go.