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I am on my own ( which is not easy in Japan ) but many of my closest friends are manager-level engineers in big companies ( NTT, etc ) and rarely earn more than

I am on my own ( which is not easy in Japan ) but many of my closest friends are manager-level engineers in big companies ( NTT, etc ) and rarely earn more than 5-7 million yen a year. This is with teams of dozens of people under them for which they are responsible. Reading your post is quite shocking for me.

ekianjo 8y ago
Don't forget that in Japan there's not just the salary you have to account for. Many domestic companies pay for your accommodation (with it something worth at least 1.5 Million a year in most places), plus several other perks (rebates on certain services, additional medical insurance, etc...). So just looking at the salary does not tell the whole story.
- Ultramanoid 8y ago
  While I know that to be so, none of my friends or relatives live or have lived in company housing. It's something we see in dramas, basically. NTT has provided first rate health care that you couldn't equal no matter what you paid for it on your own, though.
cdavid 8y ago
I don't know about NTT, but 5-6 millions JPY for manager-level roles in general is terrible, even outside Tokyo. W/ decent engineering skills, you should be able to get at least the double after enough experience in Tokyo. If you want to check your market value, you may want to talk to a recruiter (a quite scammy business in Japan, but a good way to check your market value).
- Ultramanoid 8y ago
  You seem to be in a higher 'middle-class' level than us. We don't see these numbers you mention. My wife was a recruiter for a few years herself. Edit : And those 5-7 millions I mentioned often come with 10-to-14-hour workdays, by the way, plus Saturday on the laptop all day connected to work. I really wish reality was as you describe it. It is one of the reasons I'm freelance. I don't have the stamina for corporate Japan.
  - cdavid 8y ago
    I am aware of the dread of the corporate life in large Japanese companies, and that many pay really badly. The numbers I have quoted are from people who worked in well known Japanese companies (Canon, Nintendo, etc.) and non Japanese (Pivotal). They could be anectodal, but they often match what I see in salary surveys such as https://www.robertwalters.co.jp/content/dam/robert-walters/country/japan/files/salary-survey/E-Book2017.pdf https://www.robertwalters.co.jp/content/dam/robert-walters/c....
ascar 8y ago
Are you sure your friends disclose their actual salary? Or might they be underselling themselves to meet expectations and not disturb 和 (Wa)? Would be a very Japanese thing to do, wouldn't it?
- Ultramanoid 8y ago
  It would, which is why I wrote "closest". Normally we do not discuss salaries. My wife was in charge of hiring in a big company as well and we're aware of where things are. But then, we're "average" people. As another comment points out, 6 million is the average salary, with which I agree. I do not agree 6-7 is not a good salary in Tokyo, as others also have said, 7 is pretty good money. Average of 6 means lots, and that's lots, of people earning less.

ekianjo 8y ago

Don't forget that in Japan there's not just the salary you have to account for. Many domestic companies pay for your accommodation (with it something worth at least 1.5 Million a year in most places), plus several other perks (rebates on certain services, additional medical insurance, etc...). So just looking at the salary does not tell the whole story.

Ultramanoid 8y ago
While I know that to be so, none of my friends or relatives live or have lived in company housing. It's something we see in dramas, basically. NTT has provided first rate health care that you couldn't equal no matter what you paid for it on your own, though.

cdavid 8y ago

I don't know about NTT, but 5-6 millions JPY for manager-level roles in general is terrible, even outside Tokyo. W/ decent engineering skills, you should be able to get at least the double after enough experience in Tokyo. If you want to check your market value, you may want to talk to a recruiter (a quite scammy business in Japan, but a good way to check your market value).

Ultramanoid 8y ago
You seem to be in a higher 'middle-class' level than us. We don't see these numbers you mention. My wife was a recruiter for a few years herself. Edit : And those 5-7 millions I mentioned often come with 10-to-14-hour workdays, by the way, plus Saturday on the laptop all day connected to work. I really wish reality was as you describe it. It is one of the reasons I'm freelance. I don't have the stamina for corporate Japan.
- cdavid 8y ago
  I am aware of the dread of the corporate life in large Japanese companies, and that many pay really badly. The numbers I have quoted are from people who worked in well known Japanese companies (Canon, Nintendo, etc.) and non Japanese (Pivotal). They could be anectodal, but they often match what I see in salary surveys such as https://www.robertwalters.co.jp/content/dam/robert-walters/country/japan/files/salary-survey/E-Book2017.pdf https://www.robertwalters.co.jp/content/dam/robert-walters/c....

ascar 8y ago

Are you sure your friends disclose their actual salary? Or might they be underselling themselves to meet expectations and not disturb 和 (Wa)? Would be a very Japanese thing to do, wouldn't it?

Ultramanoid 8y ago
It would, which is why I wrote "closest". Normally we do not discuss salaries. My wife was in charge of hiring in a big company as well and we're aware of where things are. But then, we're "average" people. As another comment points out, 6 million is the average salary, with which I agree. I do not agree 6-7 is not a good salary in Tokyo, as others also have said, 7 is pretty good money. Average of 6 means lots, and that's lots, of people earning less.