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According to my neighbour it is no problem to drive a Tesla 2700km from Switzerland to Finland, through Germany, Czechia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

by lrem 8y ago

usrusr 8y ago
Just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for that. That route takes you through some of the most CO2-intensive electricity grids. A Tesla charged in Poland is a much dirtier car than a Tesla charged in California or Switzerland. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that making that trip is a terrible thing to do. I do worse things myself, e.g. traveling by plane. We all have the option of instantly reducing or CO2 footprint to that of our bodies decomposing but none of us is willing to go that far.
- eisa01 8y ago
  Europe has a cap on CO2 emissions through the EU ETS, so your marginal contribution to emissions is zero by driving an electric car. You’re only contribution is to increase electricity demand, and indirectly raise CO2 prices
- atq2119 8y ago
  Is it still as dirty as an ICE car, though? Considering that electric engines are so much more efficient than combustion engines, which reduces the primary energy use significantly?
  - usrusr 8y ago
    On the chemical level, , before applying conversion, transmission and utilization inefficiencies that all drive trains suffer from in some form, coal releases more CO2 per Joule of raw output than petrol. Up to 50% more, depending on coal quality, according to the tables at https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.php https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.ph... . The difference is even bigger between coal and natural gas, so if the EV wins the comparison by a considerable but not stellar margin on a gas-powered grid it might still lose on a coal grid. Basically, my point is that even when you are driving an EV you are still driving. We are prone to forget that.
    - rjsw 8y ago
      ... and brown coal is the worst kind.
- lrem 8y ago
  It's more about the surprise that Poland, with average salary country-wide being well below 15k$/year, is not a no-go zone for Tesla. I suspect you have to charge twice to get through the country.

According to my neighbour it is no problem to drive a Tesla 2700km from Switzerland to Finland, through Germany, Czechia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

by lrem 8y ago

According to my neighbour it is no problem to drive a Tesla 2700km from Switzerland to Finland, through Germany, Czechia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia.

usrusr 8y ago

Just don't pat yourself on the back too hard for that. That route takes you through some of the most CO2-intensive electricity grids. A Tesla charged in Poland is a much dirtier car than a Tesla charged in California or Switzerland. Don't get me wrong though, I'm not saying that making that trip is a terrible thing to do. I do worse things myself, e.g. traveling by plane. We all have the option of instantly reducing or CO2 footprint to that of our bodies decomposing but none of us is willing to go that far.

eisa01 8y ago
Europe has a cap on CO2 emissions through the EU ETS, so your marginal contribution to emissions is zero by driving an electric car. You’re only contribution is to increase electricity demand, and indirectly raise CO2 prices
atq2119 8y ago
Is it still as dirty as an ICE car, though? Considering that electric engines are so much more efficient than combustion engines, which reduces the primary energy use significantly?
- usrusr 8y ago
  On the chemical level, , before applying conversion, transmission and utilization inefficiencies that all drive trains suffer from in some form, coal releases more CO2 per Joule of raw output than petrol. Up to 50% more, depending on coal quality, according to the tables at https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.php https://www.volker-quaschning.de/datserv/CO2-spez/index_e.ph... . The difference is even bigger between coal and natural gas, so if the EV wins the comparison by a considerable but not stellar margin on a gas-powered grid it might still lose on a coal grid. Basically, my point is that even when you are driving an EV you are still driving. We are prone to forget that.
  - rjsw 8y ago
    ... and brown coal is the worst kind.
lrem 8y ago
It's more about the surprise that Poland, with average salary country-wide being well below 15k$/year, is not a no-go zone for Tesla. I suspect you have to charge twice to get through the country.