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1) Since we already grow enough plants to feed the entire human population, we will only reduce animal suffering and land use by eating a vegan diet. It’s just

1) Since we already grow enough plants to feed the entire human population, we will only reduce animal suffering and land use by eating a vegan diet. It’s just that at the moment we feed grain to animals that we then slaughter instead of growing it to eat ourselves. An overview: https://youtu.be/Hvdgz536ZLE https://youtu.be/Hvdgz536ZLE 2) A vegan diet is very healthy. An overview: https://youtu.be/iBs7TcBqeIc https://youtu.be/iBs7TcBqeIc Both these videos have references in their notes.

Mirioron 8y ago
>1) Since we already grow enough plants to feed the entire human population, we will only reduce animal suffering and land use by eating a vegan diet. It’s just that at the moment we feed grain to animals that we then slaughter instead of growing it to eat ourselves But do we grow enough plants to eat a vegan diet? A vegan diet requires a rather narrow set of plants in much higher quantities than we normally consume, eg beans, soy etc. You can't just look at the calories we get from corn or grain and say that we have enough. >2) A vegan diet is very healthy. As long as you supplement B12, maybe.
- maxerickson 8y ago
  Feed conversion for beef is around 6:1, so you have 6 pounds of plants for every pound of beef. Lots of those plants are grass and other stuff humans don't really want to feed on though. Still, the large number of calories cattle need to make gains leave some room to adjust the crop mix.
  - tracker1 8y ago
    Of course grazing animal migration patterns and grassland effects (desertification/deforestation) not withstanding. I would love to see an increase in variety and number of grassland mammals in general in order to preserve/expand grasslands.
- littlecosmic 8y ago
  Corn, wheat, rye, oats, beans and soy are staple foods for humans and are what is often fed to the animals we intensively farm. For the non human-edible crops like alfalfa, canola, etc there is some wriggle room to change to other crops. My main point is that it is a realistic change not an environmental and moral disaster as it was framed. As far as supplementing B12, I say better safe than sorry, but even that is not straight forward when you look into it.
- checkyoursudo 8y ago
  I don't advocate supplementing, but a ton of people already do it, so would that part really be much of an issue?
porpoisely 8y ago
Your first claim would make sense if humans were herbivores and could survive on grains, wheat, etc that are fed to livestock. We can't because we aren't cows. As for #2, a vegan diet isn't healthy. That's why vegans need supplements. It's why a vegan cannot survive outside the confines of a city. It's why a vegan diet cannot be locally sourced but has to import all kinds of plants, seeds, etc from all over the world. It's why a vegan society has never existed. A vegan diet is unnatural. A person on a real vegan diet would slowly starve to death. If you disagree, go find a vegan homesteader who lives a "natural" life and survives solely on locally sourced products. You can't because such a person cannot exist. I used to be a vegan so I probably saw the youtube videos you linked so I won't bother. But #1 and #2 are well known lies vegans spread. I used to spread them so I should know.

Mirioron 8y ago

>1) Since we already grow enough plants to feed the entire human population, we will only reduce animal suffering and land use by eating a vegan diet. It’s just that at the moment we feed grain to animals that we then slaughter instead of growing it to eat ourselves But do we grow enough plants to eat a vegan diet? A vegan diet requires a rather narrow set of plants in much higher quantities than we normally consume, eg beans, soy etc. You can't just look at the calories we get from corn or grain and say that we have enough. >2) A vegan diet is very healthy. As long as you supplement B12, maybe.

maxerickson 8y ago
Feed conversion for beef is around 6:1, so you have 6 pounds of plants for every pound of beef. Lots of those plants are grass and other stuff humans don't really want to feed on though. Still, the large number of calories cattle need to make gains leave some room to adjust the crop mix.
- tracker1 8y ago
  Of course grazing animal migration patterns and grassland effects (desertification/deforestation) not withstanding. I would love to see an increase in variety and number of grassland mammals in general in order to preserve/expand grasslands.
littlecosmic 8y ago
Corn, wheat, rye, oats, beans and soy are staple foods for humans and are what is often fed to the animals we intensively farm. For the non human-edible crops like alfalfa, canola, etc there is some wriggle room to change to other crops. My main point is that it is a realistic change not an environmental and moral disaster as it was framed. As far as supplementing B12, I say better safe than sorry, but even that is not straight forward when you look into it.
checkyoursudo 8y ago
I don't advocate supplementing, but a ton of people already do it, so would that part really be much of an issue?

porpoisely 8y ago

Your first claim would make sense if humans were herbivores and could survive on grains, wheat, etc that are fed to livestock. We can't because we aren't cows. As for #2, a vegan diet isn't healthy. That's why vegans need supplements. It's why a vegan cannot survive outside the confines of a city. It's why a vegan diet cannot be locally sourced but has to import all kinds of plants, seeds, etc from all over the world. It's why a vegan society has never existed. A vegan diet is unnatural. A person on a real vegan diet would slowly starve to death. If you disagree, go find a vegan homesteader who lives a "natural" life and survives solely on locally sourced products. You can't because such a person cannot exist. I used to be a vegan so I probably saw the youtube videos you linked so I won't bother. But #1 and #2 are well known lies vegans spread. I used to spread them so I should know.