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Ok here's the prompt: A eugenics tool this powerful will eventually be misused in humans. Thoughts?

yingw787 8y ago
I think that's the premise of a video game already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division
- mrmyers 8y ago
  As long as we're discussing video games... It has been my private head canon for a number of years that the Gerudo race in the Legend of Zelda are the result of an attempted gene drive to exterminate Hylians. The fact that their offspring are (almost) exclusively female suggests it, and attaching the modification to a (literal) fitness increase would be a reasonable way to try to help it achieve fixation sooner. Well, looks like I'm going to have the Gerudo Desert theme stuck in my head for the rest of the night.
buboard 8y ago
humans don't reproduce every few days
- greeneggs 8y ago
  If a mad scientist mastered the technology and introduced a gene drive to make humans dislike broccoli, say, how long would it take for us to detect the attack? Could we undo it? Since CRISPR modifications have side effects, would we feel safe trying to undo it? Where would we draw the line? If the mad scientist targeted broccoli bitterness, maybe we would let it pass, especially if we detected the attack after hundreds or thousands of people had been affected. The cure could be more dangerous than the disease. If the mad scientist decided to try to give everyone blue eyes, maybe we'd act more aggressively to undo it? I don't think the answers are obvious. And since these are not billion-dollar experiments, it could be a real concern.
  - patall 8y ago
    As your parent comment suggested, the human generation cycle is not measured in days and it would need hundreds of years to manifest such a trait in the population. Also, this impacts testing as well, so development cycles will be slow too. What you are probably thinking of is a virus infection that proliferates a certain trait. However within 2 or 3 virus generations, evolution will discover that the virus is better off without that trait and will get rid of it. So your mad engineer will not achieve much. > Could we undo it? Since CRISPR modifications have side effects, would we feel safe trying to undo it? Where would we draw the line? We do not even know how to do what you are proposing, so why should we know how to undo it? The only answer here I can give you is that we do not seem to see gene drives in nature a lot. If such a powerful tool would exist, evolution (aka selfish genes) would certainly want to use it but at the same time become very inventive to find strategies against it. For example, endogenous retroviruses are a thing, but we still do not see them in action much.
felipemnoa 8y ago
Pretty much the plot of I Am Legend where a cure to eradicate all cancers had huge unforeseen circumstances.
Nasrudith 8y ago
That really doesn't seem like it would work at all. Humans are pretty pair bonding. It would need selective pressure and would take generations. There would need to be way too many suddenly appearing partners or modifications. Even if it somehow worked to say result in sterility it could be undone. Given that the trap would take generations and the state of the art advances it could well be completely effortlessly defeated because everyone is having genetic diseases and cancer risk factors removed from their children anyway.
dpacmittal 8y ago
Someone's already trying genetically modified human twins in China.

I think that's the premise of a video game already: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Clancy%27s_The_Division

mrmyers 8y ago
As long as we're discussing video games... It has been my private head canon for a number of years that the Gerudo race in the Legend of Zelda are the result of an attempted gene drive to exterminate Hylians. The fact that their offspring are (almost) exclusively female suggests it, and attaching the modification to a (literal) fitness increase would be a reasonable way to try to help it achieve fixation sooner. Well, looks like I'm going to have the Gerudo Desert theme stuck in my head for the rest of the night.

buboard 8y ago

humans don't reproduce every few days

greeneggs 8y ago
If a mad scientist mastered the technology and introduced a gene drive to make humans dislike broccoli, say, how long would it take for us to detect the attack? Could we undo it? Since CRISPR modifications have side effects, would we feel safe trying to undo it? Where would we draw the line? If the mad scientist targeted broccoli bitterness, maybe we would let it pass, especially if we detected the attack after hundreds or thousands of people had been affected. The cure could be more dangerous than the disease. If the mad scientist decided to try to give everyone blue eyes, maybe we'd act more aggressively to undo it? I don't think the answers are obvious. And since these are not billion-dollar experiments, it could be a real concern.
- patall 8y ago
  As your parent comment suggested, the human generation cycle is not measured in days and it would need hundreds of years to manifest such a trait in the population. Also, this impacts testing as well, so development cycles will be slow too. What you are probably thinking of is a virus infection that proliferates a certain trait. However within 2 or 3 virus generations, evolution will discover that the virus is better off without that trait and will get rid of it. So your mad engineer will not achieve much. > Could we undo it? Since CRISPR modifications have side effects, would we feel safe trying to undo it? Where would we draw the line? We do not even know how to do what you are proposing, so why should we know how to undo it? The only answer here I can give you is that we do not seem to see gene drives in nature a lot. If such a powerful tool would exist, evolution (aka selfish genes) would certainly want to use it but at the same time become very inventive to find strategies against it. For example, endogenous retroviruses are a thing, but we still do not see them in action much.

felipemnoa 8y ago

Pretty much the plot of I Am Legend where a cure to eradicate all cancers had huge unforeseen circumstances.

Nasrudith 8y ago

That really doesn't seem like it would work at all. Humans are pretty pair bonding. It would need selective pressure and would take generations. There would need to be way too many suddenly appearing partners or modifications. Even if it somehow worked to say result in sterility it could be undone. Given that the trap would take generations and the state of the art advances it could well be completely effortlessly defeated because everyone is having genetic diseases and cancer risk factors removed from their children anyway.

dpacmittal 8y ago

Someone's already trying genetically modified human twins in China.