3 ms·

Worse case? About $1000/mo. Likely case with an established employer? <$400/mo. You're likely to earn enough more in the US to cover that cost.

by coryrc 8y ago

PopeDotNinja 8y ago
And if you lose your job, you're screwed.
- testpostpls 8y ago
  What? You can buy insurance or go on Medi-Cal, right? Am I missing something? You’re only screwed if you don’t do those things, but at that point it feels more like a medical literacy problem—you’re also screwed if you don’t go to the doctor.
  - fucking_tragedy 8y ago
    > You can buy insurance or go on Medi-Cal, right? You can continue your exact insurance plan via COBRA and pay both your portion and your employer's portion of expenses. Having done this, I paid nearly $3k a month in premiums alone for continued individual coverage. That is not feasible for everyone who were just laid off and still have bills to pay. To be eligible for Medi-Cal, you must make under 138% of the federal poverty line, or be disabled or elderly[1]. A tech worker who was just laid off would not be eligible for Medi-Cal unless they were recognized as disabled by the state, and the program they'd be eligible for during that tax year would require them to spend a significant portion of medical costs out of pocket before Medi-Cal kicked in. There are special provisions to purchase health insurance on the individual private market if you're laid off. However, anyone with a chronic condition can attest to the problems that arise when you're forced to switch health insurance plans and continue treatment at the same time. [1] https://ca.db101.org/ca/programs/health_coverage/medi_cal/program2.htm https://ca.db101.org/ca/programs/health_coverage/medi_cal/pr...
  - PopeDotNinja 8y ago
    I tried Medical when I finished a contract job in 2014. I immediately found that a medical doctor wouldn't prescribe a prescription I needed at the time (an ADHD medication), and I couldn't see my own doctor to get the prescription. You are correct that some coverage is available to some people, but it' a bureaucratic nightmare, slow, and you're going to be limited to coverage other people think you need. Maybe it's pretty good once you learn the system, but you have to learn it, and I had to spend hours navigating the system when I really needed to be looking for a new job.
  - ianai 8y ago
    What money are the unemployed spending to stay on insurance? COBRA costs quickly exceed anyone’s savings. The suggestion to leave a stable healthcare situation for a hard to secure position at one of the top employers in the world in the most expensive to live place in the world is downright bad.
    - PopeDotNinja 8y ago
      In San Francisco, you can get basic healthcare at no/low cost. It is far from perfect, and I would not want to have a chronic condition that needed to be maintained. To your point, moving from Sweden to the USA for a great work opportunity makes sense. Staying in the USA for the low income healthcare options wouldn't be one of my top choices.
ianai 8y ago
That’s really not the worst case. The worst case is dying for lack of treatment.
abootstrapper 8y ago
Try being self employed with a family! $1,400/mo premiums and $8,000 deductible. Certainly not even the worst case.
- jeffmk 8y ago
  For me (bronze ACA plan w/ no subsidy) it's approaching $800/mo with a $15k max family deductible ($8k/person), and $18k maximum out-of-pocket expenses. So minimum to maximum liability spread for healthcare cost is ~$10k-$27k. If I pull down $100k in a year, 10-27% of my gross paycheck goes to healthcare. A shoddy analysis of ACA programs countrywide for 2019 [1] (e.g., for a 30-year-old couple with one child) lead me to the conclusion that it really doesn't get that much cheaper. Bronze, silver, gold, or platinum -- you're going to end up paying a good chunk for premiums. The metal level just is a gamble whether to front- or back-load the costs to you (roll the dice on if you think you're going to be sick next year). At absolute minimum $6400/yr, and if you get really sick, it's going to cost you $17-50k. It's incredible and terrifying to me how small business owners -- at least those who earn too much for a subsidy -- have fallen through the cracks of the ACA. It's far better than it was, but we need universal healthcare, period. It will lower total cost of healthcare (even though taxes will obviously increase, they should increase less than healthcare costs will decrease, since the US often pays double what other rich countries pay for healthcare [2]), remove the sword of Damocles of employer-subsidized healthcare hanging above the head of would-be entrepreneurs (who hope to leave and follow their own path, but many don't because if they don't make enough in your new business to offset the massive increase in healthcare costs, they're screwed), remove medically caused bankruptcies, and remove "should I get this cough/lump/etc. checked out" as an economic vs. health question (which is just a perverse calculation, but one that happens often in the US). These are just a few of the primary benefits. [1] Data available here: https://www.healthcare.gov/health-and-dental-plan-datasets-for-researchers-and-issuers/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-and-dental-plan-datasets-f... [2] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...

Worse case? About $1000/mo. Likely case with an established employer? <$400/mo. You're likely to earn enough more in the US to cover that cost.

by coryrc 8y ago

Worse case? About $1000/mo. Likely case with an established employer? <$400/mo. You're likely to earn enough more in the US to cover that cost.

PopeDotNinja 8y ago

And if you lose your job, you're screwed.

testpostpls 8y ago
What? You can buy insurance or go on Medi-Cal, right? Am I missing something? You’re only screwed if you don’t do those things, but at that point it feels more like a medical literacy problem—you’re also screwed if you don’t go to the doctor.
- fucking_tragedy 8y ago
  > You can buy insurance or go on Medi-Cal, right? You can continue your exact insurance plan via COBRA and pay both your portion and your employer's portion of expenses. Having done this, I paid nearly $3k a month in premiums alone for continued individual coverage. That is not feasible for everyone who were just laid off and still have bills to pay. To be eligible for Medi-Cal, you must make under 138% of the federal poverty line, or be disabled or elderly[1]. A tech worker who was just laid off would not be eligible for Medi-Cal unless they were recognized as disabled by the state, and the program they'd be eligible for during that tax year would require them to spend a significant portion of medical costs out of pocket before Medi-Cal kicked in. There are special provisions to purchase health insurance on the individual private market if you're laid off. However, anyone with a chronic condition can attest to the problems that arise when you're forced to switch health insurance plans and continue treatment at the same time. [1] https://ca.db101.org/ca/programs/health_coverage/medi_cal/program2.htm https://ca.db101.org/ca/programs/health_coverage/medi_cal/pr...
- PopeDotNinja 8y ago
  I tried Medical when I finished a contract job in 2014. I immediately found that a medical doctor wouldn't prescribe a prescription I needed at the time (an ADHD medication), and I couldn't see my own doctor to get the prescription. You are correct that some coverage is available to some people, but it' a bureaucratic nightmare, slow, and you're going to be limited to coverage other people think you need. Maybe it's pretty good once you learn the system, but you have to learn it, and I had to spend hours navigating the system when I really needed to be looking for a new job.
- ianai 8y ago
  What money are the unemployed spending to stay on insurance? COBRA costs quickly exceed anyone’s savings. The suggestion to leave a stable healthcare situation for a hard to secure position at one of the top employers in the world in the most expensive to live place in the world is downright bad.
  - PopeDotNinja 8y ago
    In San Francisco, you can get basic healthcare at no/low cost. It is far from perfect, and I would not want to have a chronic condition that needed to be maintained. To your point, moving from Sweden to the USA for a great work opportunity makes sense. Staying in the USA for the low income healthcare options wouldn't be one of my top choices.

ianai 8y ago

That’s really not the worst case. The worst case is dying for lack of treatment.

abootstrapper 8y ago

Try being self employed with a family! $1,400/mo premiums and $8,000 deductible. Certainly not even the worst case.

jeffmk 8y ago
For me (bronze ACA plan w/ no subsidy) it's approaching $800/mo with a $15k max family deductible ($8k/person), and $18k maximum out-of-pocket expenses. So minimum to maximum liability spread for healthcare cost is ~$10k-$27k. If I pull down $100k in a year, 10-27% of my gross paycheck goes to healthcare. A shoddy analysis of ACA programs countrywide for 2019 [1] (e.g., for a 30-year-old couple with one child) lead me to the conclusion that it really doesn't get that much cheaper. Bronze, silver, gold, or platinum -- you're going to end up paying a good chunk for premiums. The metal level just is a gamble whether to front- or back-load the costs to you (roll the dice on if you think you're going to be sick next year). At absolute minimum $6400/yr, and if you get really sick, it's going to cost you $17-50k. It's incredible and terrifying to me how small business owners -- at least those who earn too much for a subsidy -- have fallen through the cracks of the ACA. It's far better than it was, but we need universal healthcare, period. It will lower total cost of healthcare (even though taxes will obviously increase, they should increase less than healthcare costs will decrease, since the US often pays double what other rich countries pay for healthcare [2]), remove the sword of Damocles of employer-subsidized healthcare hanging above the head of would-be entrepreneurs (who hope to leave and follow their own path, but many don't because if they don't make enough in your new business to offset the massive increase in healthcare costs, they're screwed), remove medically caused bankruptcies, and remove "should I get this cough/lump/etc. checked out" as an economic vs. health question (which is just a perverse calculation, but one that happens often in the US). These are just a few of the primary benefits. [1] Data available here: https://www.healthcare.gov/health-and-dental-plan-datasets-for-researchers-and-issuers/ https://www.healthcare.gov/health-and-dental-plan-datasets-f... [2] https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-spending-u-s-compare-countries/ https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/health-...