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What's with Americans constantly attempting to paint their situation as more dire than it actually is? Is it just a blatant lack of perspective on the rest of t

What's with Americans constantly attempting to paint their situation as more dire than it actually is? Is it just a blatant lack of perspective on the rest of the world? Reminds me of an article I read attempting to claim that child mortality in Memphis was worse than in Bangladesh. No, the United States isn't like the "developing world" if you're poor (and since when is Italy, the comparison country, considered "developing world"?) Comparisons like these (which are rather frequent, I've found) are obnoxiously disrespectful to the millions of people actually living in developing world countries. The same millions who would give up their first kid (and often, in many ways, do) to be allowed into the US. We can discuss improving the US while also still acknowledging that, on a global scale, their problems are fundamentally "first world problems". You don't need to spend hours crunching numbers finding some favourable metric to the South Sudan to make your damn point.

sattoshi 8y ago
The phenomena you’re describing feels very real. I think it’s a deformed manifestation of a victim complex. I’m not sure. I remember reading an article proclaiming that the United States is the 10th(!!!) most dangerous country in the world for women[0]. [0]: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/10-most-dangerous-countries-in-the-world-for-women-1.6217212 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/10-most-dangerous-countri...
smokeyj 8y ago
We've all heard of virtue signaling. Meet his ugly brother, "policy shaming". A few days ago a story hit HN about how ISIS is banning single-use plastics. That was very problematic because my eyes almost rolled into the back of my head. One of the few US places that actually resembles a developing nation is San Francisco. Whatever economic policy those people employ, the nation should do the exact opposite.
- briandear 8y ago
  $77 billion spent on a train from Merced to Bakersfield. I’m sure that money could have easily solved many infrastructure issues.
sampo 8y ago
> Reminds me of an article I read attempting to claim that child mortality in Memphis was worse than in Bangladesh. It sure isn't. Infant mortality in Bangladesh is 27/1000 (in 2017), whereas Memphis is down from 15/1000 (in 2003) to 8/1000 (in 2015). https://www.statista.com/statistics/806665/infant-mortality-in-bangladesh/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/806665/infant-mortality-... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/21/infant-mortality-rate-hits-record-low-in-memphis/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/21/infant-mort...
blitmap 8y ago
I guess this depends on what your definition of a first-world problem is. People die here because they can't afford care. People avoiding the larger milestones in life like owning a home and having children because it's untenable. This will cause larger, show-stopping problems.
- abnry 8y ago
  People die in developing countries because they don't have access to clean water. That a completely different problem than not being able to afford healthcare or own a home.
  - HarryHirsch 8y ago
    Hookworm in Alabama and the Panhandle: https://www.bcm.edu/news/school-of-tropical-medicine/hookworm-poverty-sanitation-alabama https://www.bcm.edu/news/school-of-tropical-medicine/hookwor... Enough said.
    - ericd 8y ago
      It’s really not. Go down to Dhaka’s main river. Gag due to the clouds of gas coming off the raw sewage, and watch as people wash themselves and their clothes in the same river that people are shitting in. It’s absolutely absurd to compare the US to anything like it.
      - zeropnc 8y ago
        There is an actual commenter here suggesting Flint is an example of "3rd world country". You'd think in the age of YouTube people would have more perspective on the rest of the world. Seriously, one stroll down the giant open air landfills (which double as housing for hundreds of people) of Dhaka should be enough to be eternally thankful for what one has.
        addicted 8y ago
        The poster you mention absolutely does not say that. The poster says Flint’s clean water problems are the kind you would find in a 3rd world country. I think you are clearly misreading both the article and people’s comments to it. No one is suggesting the US is a 3rd world country. But in certain areas it’s statistics resemble 3rd world country outcomes more than it does developed country outcomes. The reason this is important is that the US is usually an outlier in developed countries in this area, which means solutions to these problems exist.
abnry 8y ago
I wish Americans showed more gratitude for what they have. Right now, you gain friends and influence by complaining. I'm not saying problems don't exist, but man, we are the 1% in human history. EDIT: Downvotes on this comment just confirm my point.
- zanny 8y ago
  The man dying from preventable illness really should feel mighty grateful he lives in a country where he has the right to buy a gun with all that money he doesn't have. The black teenager being bludgeoned into permanent disability by a cop should feel extra grateful the water only has iron in it and not ebola. Humans are infinitely capable of inflicting and causing misery. Just because some are more miserable than others doesn't make some not miserable. And we are all only unto ourselves - I cannot do anything to solve the suffering of billions abroad, my influence is functionally limited to who I vote into office that has macroeconomically influential power. And I'll keep doing my best to try getting those elected into such positions of power, using the power I have, that would work to reduce misery everywhere when they are able, but each of us is only one person usually with only the capacity to influence those immediately around us. We cannot all be changing the world at once.
  - abnry 8y ago
    I live with a chronic illness where I can't work. My life sucks more than most people. I never said problems don't exist but it is undeniable that it could be so much worse if I lived in a different country or in a different time. If you NEVER allow yourself to be grateful for what is good in your life, you are going to INCREASE the misery you have. And that's what is missing in our culture. We goad each other online into complaining and more complaining about things that, while problems, make us forget the good we have and which robs us of happiness. There's kind of a perverse incentive to come up with the biggest "woe is me" story because it often confers a sort of status in today's culture. The fact of the matter is that in the history of all humanity, suffering is the norm. Falling asleep on a soft bed with a full belly after a clean shower with an entertainment screen is what is unusual.
- sofal 8y ago
hellisothers 8y ago
Agreed, these discussions seem more like “America has a more disfunctuonal government than most Eurocentric countries” which feels valid. I get it, I almost took a job in France but we were worried our parents would never get to see their only grandson. Comparing America to developing worlds can be done but it’s hyperbolic and can turn people off of discussing it.
mortenjorck 8y ago
The article isn't making the comparison you seem to think it's making. Neither the US nor Italy are being directly compared to the developing world. The author is taking the UN's term of "in transition" and considering whether it might apply to the dynamics at play in both countries.

sattoshi 8y ago

The phenomena you’re describing feels very real. I think it’s a deformed manifestation of a victim complex. I’m not sure. I remember reading an article proclaiming that the United States is the 10th(!!!) most dangerous country in the world for women[0]. [0]: https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/10-most-dangerous-countries-in-the-world-for-women-1.6217212 https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/10-most-dangerous-countri...

smokeyj 8y ago

We've all heard of virtue signaling. Meet his ugly brother, "policy shaming". A few days ago a story hit HN about how ISIS is banning single-use plastics. That was very problematic because my eyes almost rolled into the back of my head. One of the few US places that actually resembles a developing nation is San Francisco. Whatever economic policy those people employ, the nation should do the exact opposite.

briandear 8y ago
$77 billion spent on a train from Merced to Bakersfield. I’m sure that money could have easily solved many infrastructure issues.

sampo 8y ago

> Reminds me of an article I read attempting to claim that child mortality in Memphis was worse than in Bangladesh. It sure isn't. Infant mortality in Bangladesh is 27/1000 (in 2017), whereas Memphis is down from 15/1000 (in 2003) to 8/1000 (in 2015). https://www.statista.com/statistics/806665/infant-mortality-in-bangladesh/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/806665/infant-mortality-... https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/21/infant-mortality-rate-hits-record-low-in-memphis/ https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/nov/21/infant-mort...

blitmap 8y ago

I guess this depends on what your definition of a first-world problem is. People die here because they can't afford care. People avoiding the larger milestones in life like owning a home and having children because it's untenable. This will cause larger, show-stopping problems.

abnry 8y ago
People die in developing countries because they don't have access to clean water. That a completely different problem than not being able to afford healthcare or own a home.
- HarryHirsch 8y ago
  Hookworm in Alabama and the Panhandle: https://www.bcm.edu/news/school-of-tropical-medicine/hookworm-poverty-sanitation-alabama https://www.bcm.edu/news/school-of-tropical-medicine/hookwor... Enough said.
  - ericd 8y ago
    It’s really not. Go down to Dhaka’s main river. Gag due to the clouds of gas coming off the raw sewage, and watch as people wash themselves and their clothes in the same river that people are shitting in. It’s absolutely absurd to compare the US to anything like it.
    - zeropnc 8y ago
      There is an actual commenter here suggesting Flint is an example of "3rd world country". You'd think in the age of YouTube people would have more perspective on the rest of the world. Seriously, one stroll down the giant open air landfills (which double as housing for hundreds of people) of Dhaka should be enough to be eternally thankful for what one has.
      - addicted 8y ago
        The poster you mention absolutely does not say that. The poster says Flint’s clean water problems are the kind you would find in a 3rd world country. I think you are clearly misreading both the article and people’s comments to it. No one is suggesting the US is a 3rd world country. But in certain areas it’s statistics resemble 3rd world country outcomes more than it does developed country outcomes. The reason this is important is that the US is usually an outlier in developed countries in this area, which means solutions to these problems exist.

abnry 8y ago

I wish Americans showed more gratitude for what they have. Right now, you gain friends and influence by complaining. I'm not saying problems don't exist, but man, we are the 1% in human history. EDIT: Downvotes on this comment just confirm my point.

zanny 8y ago
The man dying from preventable illness really should feel mighty grateful he lives in a country where he has the right to buy a gun with all that money he doesn't have. The black teenager being bludgeoned into permanent disability by a cop should feel extra grateful the water only has iron in it and not ebola. Humans are infinitely capable of inflicting and causing misery. Just because some are more miserable than others doesn't make some not miserable. And we are all only unto ourselves - I cannot do anything to solve the suffering of billions abroad, my influence is functionally limited to who I vote into office that has macroeconomically influential power. And I'll keep doing my best to try getting those elected into such positions of power, using the power I have, that would work to reduce misery everywhere when they are able, but each of us is only one person usually with only the capacity to influence those immediately around us. We cannot all be changing the world at once.
- abnry 8y ago
  I live with a chronic illness where I can't work. My life sucks more than most people. I never said problems don't exist but it is undeniable that it could be so much worse if I lived in a different country or in a different time. If you NEVER allow yourself to be grateful for what is good in your life, you are going to INCREASE the misery you have. And that's what is missing in our culture. We goad each other online into complaining and more complaining about things that, while problems, make us forget the good we have and which robs us of happiness. There's kind of a perverse incentive to come up with the biggest "woe is me" story because it often confers a sort of status in today's culture. The fact of the matter is that in the history of all humanity, suffering is the norm. Falling asleep on a soft bed with a full belly after a clean shower with an entertainment screen is what is unusual.
sofal 8y ago

hellisothers 8y ago

Agreed, these discussions seem more like “America has a more disfunctuonal government than most Eurocentric countries” which feels valid. I get it, I almost took a job in France but we were worried our parents would never get to see their only grandson. Comparing America to developing worlds can be done but it’s hyperbolic and can turn people off of discussing it.

mortenjorck 8y ago

The article isn't making the comparison you seem to think it's making. Neither the US nor Italy are being directly compared to the developing world. The author is taking the UN's term of "in transition" and considering whether it might apply to the dynamics at play in both countries.