8 ms·

And 50% of people living in SF want to leave https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/20/18233498/poll-2019-leaving-san-francisco-oakland-silicon-valley https://sf.curbed.c

by temp1928384 8y ago

And 50% of people living in SF want to leave https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/20/18233498/poll-2019-leaving-san-francisco-oakland-silicon-valley https://sf.curbed.com/2019/2/20/18233498/poll-2019-leaving-s...

eanzenberg 8y ago
Then why dont they? Or are there 2 people willing to take the place of every person leaving?
- pm90 8y ago
  Yea
- temp1928384 8y ago
  People leave all the time...especially anyone who is late 20s/early 30s knows plenty of friends who move out.
  - shambolicfroli 8y ago
    Where's that map of outmigration by demographic?
- closeparen 8y ago
  The Bay Area is experiencing population growth due to birth and foreign immigration despite net domestic outmigration.
  - temp1928384 8y ago
    SF has one of the lowest rates of kids of any major metro
  - godzillabrennus 8y ago
    I had dinner with a co-founder of Hotmail who has spent years buying up lots of real estate in the Bay Area. They commented that less than 4% of property in San Francisco is owned by someone born in the city. Don’t know how to fact check that but it would be fascinating if true.
- r00fus 8y ago
  This comes up time and time again. Here are a few reasons (whether they're real or perceived) 1) H1B transfer difficulty 2) Family nearby 3) Friends 4) Immigrant friendly culture 5) Velvet handcuffs I've strongly considered it myself.
- enra 8y ago
  I think for many people it comes down to go exactly where and do exactly what there. Once lived in Bay Area for while, you have certain expectations on compensation, services, things to do, career growth etc. If you are used to a city like SF and enjoy the level of things in there, in the world and US there only few cities similar. Like nyc, la, London, Tokyo etc. Portland, Seattle, Austin, Berlin are all good but not the same. Most of these places are almost as expensive or in similar category as SF but all of them have lower tech salaries than SF, by little or by a lot. In addition, if you live decently and your salary doesn’t only go to rent, then any decrease in rent is always less than decrease in your salary. Say your rent is $3000 in sf and you make $300k+ per year in total comp. Say moving to Austin your rent would be $1500 but your salary would be $200k. You are only saving $18k year in rent but your salary dropped $100k. Go to Berlin and you maybe pay $1000 for apartment but your salary is $60k. Lastly, as messed up lot of startups and companies are in Bay Area, there is still a lot of experience and drive to build succesful companies. Go anywhere else in the world and you will encounter more clueless people with absolutely no networks, who have no ambition, and are just trying to do some local play of a global company. I know it sounds harsh but I think for many people thinking about moving to London and working in some consultancy or bank doesn’t sound very exciting or a growth opportunity. So I think lot of people want to move, but cannot find good or exciting reasons to do that financially, growth or general job happiness. Quality of living and housing yes for sure. I think options are: 1) start your company and build the culture and company you want whenever or in a distributed way 2) Decide to retire to the countryside and work on your own projects 3) Find a fulfilling, not exactly high tech job or position, but more like a foundation / helping governments with socially responsible software etc. Essentially financially retire, but work on meaningful things I think Bay Area is still great for singles or couples without kids, that you can get dual high income and share housing costs. Also the career and company options in tech are unparaller. Starting companies needing massive engineering force, less so.
  - randomacct3847 8y ago
    It’s not just cost of living but taxes. Living in a state with no income tax is an automatic 10-12% bump in take home pay. Agree though if you’re single your living situation is more flexible and you can find a place for less than market rate here pretty easily. It’s once you get married and want kids that SF makes no sense for most people. Someone making 200k in Austin has a much much better quality of life than someone making 300k in SF. No question.
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  Commute times and rent control. I’d love to move to North Bay but I have to be in San Jose twice a week for meetings. We need better public transit and we could solve a portion of these problems.
  - usaar333 8y ago
    That's 55 miles from a low density area. I'm not sure there is anywhere where public transit wouldn't take over an hour each way.
ummonk 8y ago
And the rest of us are waiting it out hoping others get fed up and leave soon. The NIMBYs have a lot to answer for.
Johnny555 8y ago
I'd take that with a big grain of salt, I spent over a decade of my 20 years living in SF looking elsewhere to move to since I couldn't afford the real estate. So I'd be counted as one of the ones that want to leave, but I never left until finally I moved down the Peninsula.
- diogenescynic 8y ago
  I wouldnt, I’m just surprised it’s not higher. Most of my friends hit 30-32 then move out to Marin, Walnut Creek or San Mateo. Once you get to the age where you’re married and thinking about kids, you want out of SF.
- temp1928384 8y ago
  I'm confused by your logic. Isn't the median home price in the Peninsula a multiple of the median home price in SF or OAK?
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    I don't keep up with the home price trends, but I bought a 2 bedroom condo on the peninsula within walking distance of Caltrain for less than any one bedroom I could find in SF. Median price doesn't matter as much as the point-in-time price for what the homebuyer is looking for. A 3 bedroom house in Palo Alto can distort the price curve when all you want is a small condo in Burlingame.

eanzenberg 8y ago

Then why dont they? Or are there 2 people willing to take the place of every person leaving?

pm90 8y ago
Yea
temp1928384 8y ago
People leave all the time...especially anyone who is late 20s/early 30s knows plenty of friends who move out.
- shambolicfroli 8y ago
  Where's that map of outmigration by demographic?
closeparen 8y ago
The Bay Area is experiencing population growth due to birth and foreign immigration despite net domestic outmigration.
- temp1928384 8y ago
  SF has one of the lowest rates of kids of any major metro
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  I had dinner with a co-founder of Hotmail who has spent years buying up lots of real estate in the Bay Area. They commented that less than 4% of property in San Francisco is owned by someone born in the city. Don’t know how to fact check that but it would be fascinating if true.
r00fus 8y ago
This comes up time and time again. Here are a few reasons (whether they're real or perceived) 1) H1B transfer difficulty 2) Family nearby 3) Friends 4) Immigrant friendly culture 5) Velvet handcuffs I've strongly considered it myself.
enra 8y ago
I think for many people it comes down to go exactly where and do exactly what there. Once lived in Bay Area for while, you have certain expectations on compensation, services, things to do, career growth etc. If you are used to a city like SF and enjoy the level of things in there, in the world and US there only few cities similar. Like nyc, la, London, Tokyo etc. Portland, Seattle, Austin, Berlin are all good but not the same. Most of these places are almost as expensive or in similar category as SF but all of them have lower tech salaries than SF, by little or by a lot. In addition, if you live decently and your salary doesn’t only go to rent, then any decrease in rent is always less than decrease in your salary. Say your rent is $3000 in sf and you make $300k+ per year in total comp. Say moving to Austin your rent would be $1500 but your salary would be $200k. You are only saving $18k year in rent but your salary dropped $100k. Go to Berlin and you maybe pay $1000 for apartment but your salary is $60k. Lastly, as messed up lot of startups and companies are in Bay Area, there is still a lot of experience and drive to build succesful companies. Go anywhere else in the world and you will encounter more clueless people with absolutely no networks, who have no ambition, and are just trying to do some local play of a global company. I know it sounds harsh but I think for many people thinking about moving to London and working in some consultancy or bank doesn’t sound very exciting or a growth opportunity. So I think lot of people want to move, but cannot find good or exciting reasons to do that financially, growth or general job happiness. Quality of living and housing yes for sure. I think options are: 1) start your company and build the culture and company you want whenever or in a distributed way 2) Decide to retire to the countryside and work on your own projects 3) Find a fulfilling, not exactly high tech job or position, but more like a foundation / helping governments with socially responsible software etc. Essentially financially retire, but work on meaningful things I think Bay Area is still great for singles or couples without kids, that you can get dual high income and share housing costs. Also the career and company options in tech are unparaller. Starting companies needing massive engineering force, less so.
- randomacct3847 8y ago
  It’s not just cost of living but taxes. Living in a state with no income tax is an automatic 10-12% bump in take home pay. Agree though if you’re single your living situation is more flexible and you can find a place for less than market rate here pretty easily. It’s once you get married and want kids that SF makes no sense for most people. Someone making 200k in Austin has a much much better quality of life than someone making 300k in SF. No question.
diogenescynic 8y ago
Commute times and rent control. I’d love to move to North Bay but I have to be in San Jose twice a week for meetings. We need better public transit and we could solve a portion of these problems.
- usaar333 8y ago
  That's 55 miles from a low density area. I'm not sure there is anywhere where public transit wouldn't take over an hour each way.

ummonk 8y ago

And the rest of us are waiting it out hoping others get fed up and leave soon. The NIMBYs have a lot to answer for.

Johnny555 8y ago

I'd take that with a big grain of salt, I spent over a decade of my 20 years living in SF looking elsewhere to move to since I couldn't afford the real estate. So I'd be counted as one of the ones that want to leave, but I never left until finally I moved down the Peninsula.

diogenescynic 8y ago
I wouldnt, I’m just surprised it’s not higher. Most of my friends hit 30-32 then move out to Marin, Walnut Creek or San Mateo. Once you get to the age where you’re married and thinking about kids, you want out of SF.
temp1928384 8y ago
I'm confused by your logic. Isn't the median home price in the Peninsula a multiple of the median home price in SF or OAK?
- Johnny555 8y ago
  I don't keep up with the home price trends, but I bought a 2 bedroom condo on the peninsula within walking distance of Caltrain for less than any one bedroom I could find in SF. Median price doesn't matter as much as the point-in-time price for what the homebuyer is looking for. A 3 bedroom house in Palo Alto can distort the price curve when all you want is a small condo in Burlingame.