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> What happens when they decide to silence or stifle a group that's actually trying to help the good of the people? It's amazing to me how angry people get at

> What happens when they decide to silence or stifle a group that's actually trying to help the good of the people? It's amazing to me how angry people get at people who choose not to vaccinate. Throughout history there are countless examples of medicine and medical practices that were deemed safe that turned out not to be. And the published reaction rate for vaccines is not 0. So, while completely rejecting conspiracy theories or vaccines as a cause of autism or ADHD, I don't think it's fair to demonize people who choose not to put something into their body that they don't fully understand or trust. Just calling them names or stupid isn't going to help. A little more empathy and less anger might actually help adoption. But the last time I checked aggressively guilt tripping someone into a health decision usually creates more resistance than adoption.

idDriven 8y ago
OK, so the major issue that I see here is that the average person doesn't have the education to make an informed health benefit/risk decision. Would every member of the population who is uncertain about stuff be willing to go through a RN-level course to make an informed decision? Because only at an RN level in medicine is there an understanding level capable of independent decision making. I would like to see free education for all, maybe we can work towards that.
SolaceQuantum 8y ago
The published reaction rate for vaccines is not 0, but we also have qualitative, hard studies that show the incredible benefits of eradicating preventable diseases via vaccine. Being afraid of vaccines and choosing not to vaccinate is choosing to put infants under the vaccination age, immunocompromised people, those allergic to vaccines, all in danger of diseases with often horrific consequences. The measles is a disease preventable by vaccination which causes hearing damage in one in 10 children, which is much higher than the rate of complications from the measles vaccine. Horror and anguish is perhaps one of the most reasonable responses to anti vaccination movement getting any sort of momentum.
- everdev 8y ago
  I'm not debating the safety of vaccines, but I am debating the technique of horror and anguish. When had that worked in history? I only know of it creating more conflict and more deeply entrenched positions. Until you can understand and empathize with who you're talking to, trying to convince them off anything is going to do more harm than good.
  - fzeroracer 8y ago
    You can't argue with incredibly irrational fear. Believe me, I've tried. Have you frequently argued with the anti-vaxx or conspiracy crowd, or are you just shouting platitudes for the sake of it? Because in the end, no evidence you have will be enough.
    - everdev 8y ago
      Yes, many people in my community chose not to vaccinate years ago. If you listen first and treat them with respect and patience it helps a ton. Trying to use facts against emotion never works as you mentioned. Helping work through the emotion and then introducing facts does in my experience.

idDriven 8y ago

OK, so the major issue that I see here is that the average person doesn't have the education to make an informed health benefit/risk decision. Would every member of the population who is uncertain about stuff be willing to go through a RN-level course to make an informed decision? Because only at an RN level in medicine is there an understanding level capable of independent decision making. I would like to see free education for all, maybe we can work towards that.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago

The published reaction rate for vaccines is not 0, but we also have qualitative, hard studies that show the incredible benefits of eradicating preventable diseases via vaccine. Being afraid of vaccines and choosing not to vaccinate is choosing to put infants under the vaccination age, immunocompromised people, those allergic to vaccines, all in danger of diseases with often horrific consequences. The measles is a disease preventable by vaccination which causes hearing damage in one in 10 children, which is much higher than the rate of complications from the measles vaccine. Horror and anguish is perhaps one of the most reasonable responses to anti vaccination movement getting any sort of momentum.

everdev 8y ago
I'm not debating the safety of vaccines, but I am debating the technique of horror and anguish. When had that worked in history? I only know of it creating more conflict and more deeply entrenched positions. Until you can understand and empathize with who you're talking to, trying to convince them off anything is going to do more harm than good.
- fzeroracer 8y ago
  You can't argue with incredibly irrational fear. Believe me, I've tried. Have you frequently argued with the anti-vaxx or conspiracy crowd, or are you just shouting platitudes for the sake of it? Because in the end, no evidence you have will be enough.
  - everdev 8y ago
    Yes, many people in my community chose not to vaccinate years ago. If you listen first and treat them with respect and patience it helps a ton. Trying to use facts against emotion never works as you mentioned. Helping work through the emotion and then introducing facts does in my experience.