8 ms·

Yea, this is what people on the Left (which I am myself) turn a blind eye. Sure, the US has done plenty of awful shit with our military, but would you prefer th

Yea, this is what people on the Left (which I am myself) turn a blind eye. Sure, the US has done plenty of awful shit with our military, but would you prefer the West to not be the dominant block in the world? That's going to end liberalism way faster. The military / real politik foreign affairs are dirty parts of life that we'd prefer not to have, but we live in a world where we must have them.

YJR 8y ago
I'd prefer to not having a dominant block at all .
- mc32 8y ago
  So how do you get the other actors to concede and play nice?
- nickpinkston 8y ago
  Remember that multi-polar worlds tend to have far more wars. Even the bi-polar Cold War was highly dangerous. Having a good single block is preferable.
  - vasac 8y ago
    Yeah, right. Almost no wars in the last 30 years. Except for a few never-ending wars that last so long that are basically a new normal so we can count them off.
    - nickpinkston 8y ago
      I'm not denying there aren't still huge conflicts with high loss of life, however defined, but I'm glad we don't have many true state on state open wars like the past few millennia where large percentages of the population were killed.
- CamperBob2 8y ago
  That's not an option that you have.
eibrahim 8y ago
Well said. It’s definitly a tough position but that is reality. I am an immigrant and lean more to the left of center but we got have common sense. I would rather have America be dominant than any other nation. With all our faults, we excercise incredible restraint with our immense powers. This of course could change if we end up electing more leaders like Trump. We need to stay strong militarily but also need good and intelligent leaders which unfortunately we don’t currently have.
- pnw_hazor 8y ago
  How many wars has Trump started? I haven't kept count.
  - king_magic 8y ago
    Literally... zero?
  - quakeguy 8y ago
    How many has he ended?
    - pnw_hazor 8y ago
      It seems like he is trying to end at least a couple. However, entrenched interests and Trump haters (both Dem and GOP) can't let that happen.
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
  - eibrahim 8y ago
    Fair question, it's not just about the wars he starts/ends. It's about the rhetorics and the planting of seeds of conflict and hate and what becomes of it in 4 years or 10 years or 20 years. Simple words by a country's leader could ruin relationships between nations for decades or between different parts of society. You don't just start hating {insert favorite target jews|blacks|muslims|christians|whites} overnight, it takes time. You plant the seeds of hate and let them flourish into ethnic cleansing|holocaust|interment camps|etc. It's our duty to nip that shit in bud right now :). We have come so far to let that sort of shit take us back. I apologize for taking this discussion in a political direction. In any case, I think it's important for us to have a strong military and Microsoft helping our military build better weapons/systems/tools is a good thing. A strong America is a good thing - as long as we have no Trumps :)
whytaka 8y ago
But surely, people who want to work for defence contractors can and will. And if you were working for a company that wasn't a defence contractor, but is becoming one, you can yell and shout if you think it might deter the company and let you stay where you like staying.
- CapricornNoble 8y ago
  "And if you were working for a company that wasn't a defence contractor...." Do you have any idea how many decades Microsoft has been getting millions in income from the Pentagon? The whole DoD runs on Microsoft products. Windows. Office. Outlook. Sharepoint. Access. All of that stuff has expensive licenses and enterprise support contracts. Any employee who joined Microsoft after, say, 1995 and thinks they weren't joining a "defense contractor" is just willfully ignorant.
remarkEon 8y ago
If liberalism surviving is defined as “western military hegemony” then I think there’s a problem with liberalism, but the military tools used to enforce it.
- oh_sigh 8y ago
  How should liberalism respond if 100 liberals can be silenced by 1 authoritarian with a machine gun, and the ratio of authoritarians to liberals is 1:99?
  - remarkEon 8y ago
    I don't think liberalism has an answer to this question. It appears to me that as liberal democracies become more democratic the likelihood that an authoritarian can take power, from the left or right, increases. So it's somewhat of a paradox.

YJR 8y ago

I'd prefer to not having a dominant block at all .

mc32 8y ago
So how do you get the other actors to concede and play nice?
nickpinkston 8y ago
Remember that multi-polar worlds tend to have far more wars. Even the bi-polar Cold War was highly dangerous. Having a good single block is preferable.
- vasac 8y ago
  Yeah, right. Almost no wars in the last 30 years. Except for a few never-ending wars that last so long that are basically a new normal so we can count them off.
  - nickpinkston 8y ago
    I'm not denying there aren't still huge conflicts with high loss of life, however defined, but I'm glad we don't have many true state on state open wars like the past few millennia where large percentages of the population were killed.
CamperBob2 8y ago
That's not an option that you have.

eibrahim 8y ago

Well said. It’s definitly a tough position but that is reality. I am an immigrant and lean more to the left of center but we got have common sense. I would rather have America be dominant than any other nation. With all our faults, we excercise incredible restraint with our immense powers. This of course could change if we end up electing more leaders like Trump. We need to stay strong militarily but also need good and intelligent leaders which unfortunately we don’t currently have.

pnw_hazor 8y ago
How many wars has Trump started? I haven't kept count.
- king_magic 8y ago
  Literally... zero?
- quakeguy 8y ago
  How many has he ended?
  - pnw_hazor 8y ago
    It seems like he is trying to end at least a couple. However, entrenched interests and Trump haters (both Dem and GOP) can't let that happen.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- eibrahim 8y ago
  Fair question, it's not just about the wars he starts/ends. It's about the rhetorics and the planting of seeds of conflict and hate and what becomes of it in 4 years or 10 years or 20 years. Simple words by a country's leader could ruin relationships between nations for decades or between different parts of society. You don't just start hating {insert favorite target jews|blacks|muslims|christians|whites} overnight, it takes time. You plant the seeds of hate and let them flourish into ethnic cleansing|holocaust|interment camps|etc. It's our duty to nip that shit in bud right now :). We have come so far to let that sort of shit take us back. I apologize for taking this discussion in a political direction. In any case, I think it's important for us to have a strong military and Microsoft helping our military build better weapons/systems/tools is a good thing. A strong America is a good thing - as long as we have no Trumps :)

whytaka 8y ago

But surely, people who want to work for defence contractors can and will. And if you were working for a company that wasn't a defence contractor, but is becoming one, you can yell and shout if you think it might deter the company and let you stay where you like staying.

CapricornNoble 8y ago
"And if you were working for a company that wasn't a defence contractor...." Do you have any idea how many decades Microsoft has been getting millions in income from the Pentagon? The whole DoD runs on Microsoft products. Windows. Office. Outlook. Sharepoint. Access. All of that stuff has expensive licenses and enterprise support contracts. Any employee who joined Microsoft after, say, 1995 and thinks they weren't joining a "defense contractor" is just willfully ignorant.

remarkEon 8y ago

If liberalism surviving is defined as “western military hegemony” then I think there’s a problem with liberalism, but the military tools used to enforce it.

oh_sigh 8y ago
How should liberalism respond if 100 liberals can be silenced by 1 authoritarian with a machine gun, and the ratio of authoritarians to liberals is 1:99?
- remarkEon 8y ago
  I don't think liberalism has an answer to this question. It appears to me that as liberal democracies become more democratic the likelihood that an authoritarian can take power, from the left or right, increases. So it's somewhat of a paradox.