4 ms·

I really hated Roma. I don't say that lightly. I'm in violent agreement with Richard Brody's review: > That effacement of Cleo’s character, her reduction to a

by js2 8y ago

I really hated Roma. I don't say that lightly. I'm in violent agreement with Richard Brody's review: > That effacement of Cleo’s character, her reduction to a bland and blank trope that burnishes the director’s conscience while smothering her consciousness and his own, is the essential and crucial failure of “Roma.” It sets the tone for the movie’s aesthetic and hollows it out, reducing Cuarón’s worthwhile intentions and evident passions to vain gestures. https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/theres-a-voice-missing-in-alfonso-cuarons-roma https://www.newyorker.com/culture/the-front-row/theres-a-voi... It's this way with all the characters. They're all shallow, one-dimensional tropes you're never given any reason to care about. Except for the domestic servants, they're all unlikeable. Worse, I found the film outright boring (I say this as someone who loves Barry Lyndon). The scene shown on the movie poster that I gather is supposed to have a big emotional impact, just left me feeling manipulated. It's telegraphed to you from a mile away, and then the family claiming they love the maid, it just isn't believable given how they've ignored her and mostly treated her like crap. Speaking of crap, the dog shit. Why the hell was that so important to Cuarón that he features it, what, a dozen times? Finally, I really didn't care for the B&W combined with digital. The overall effect just looked contrived to me. (I watched it on 100" screen with a calibrated JVC D-ILA projector, so I think I viewed it pretty close to how the director intended.) If you want to see a brilliant 2018 film about the human condition and a family dealing with trying circumstances, watch Shoplifters instead. I viewed Roma and Shoplifters the same evening. I'm so glad I watched the latter and wish I could have my two hours back from the former. TL;DR: Roma sucks, watch Shoplifters instead. Or Tokyo Story if you want to see Roma done right.

dguaraglia 8y ago
I grew up in Latin America, so I guess I can give you some context about some of this stuff. I am not going to defend the entertainment value of the movie, because I personally found it pretty boring (I guess the voyeuristic value isn't there for me, having grown up in a similar environment). > It sets the tone for the movie’s aesthetic and hollows it out, reducing Cuarón’s worthwhile intentions and evident passions to vain gestures. The assumption here is that Cuarón should've made the film about Cleo, by giving her a voice and explaining to us her point of view... when maybe Cuarón might be trying to show us how he was unable to really understand this person who had a very rich life outside of his world. If Cuarón's experience was always defined by a very simple interface (that of the "sirvienta" or "mucama"), then it's understandable that his version of her is a muted - one could say desaturated - version of the real person. > ...and then the family claiming they love the maid, it just isn't believable given how they've ignored her and mostly treated her like crap. Most families' relationships with their maids is super weird. My family was never affluent enough to afford one, but I had plenty of friends who had a "sirvienta" (the Argentine equivalent of Cleo's role). To the kids, the sirvienta was a second mother, to the parents the sirvienta was a friend, psychiatrist and help. All of them would talk fondly of their sirvientas as if they were part of the family... to an extent. If a sirvienta falls in hard times (be it health, money or otherwise), the family doesn't usually offer to help. In other words, as long as the sirvienta is in the house, she's part of the family. The moment she leaves, she's just an stranger they didn't really care that much for. Very strange. > Speaking of crap, the dog shit. Why the hell was that so important to Cuarón that he features it, what, a dozen times? I think this is Cuarón's rendering of the kind of things that imprint on you as a kid. I remember my first time walking around La Boca, in Buenos Aires, after living abroad for a few years. The amount of dog shit on the sidewalk was staggering. I was surprised, even though I grew up less than an hour away from there. I could see myself remembering the dog shit had I grown up in La Boca.
- subpixel 8y ago
  > If Cuarón's experience was always defined by a very simple interface (that of the "sirvienta" or "mucama"), then it's understandable that his version of her is a muted - one could say desaturated - version of the real person That's just rationalizing away the fact that the film's subject was poorly handled by the film's director. Someone else - and I'm not suggesting that has to be someone whose experiences more closely map to Cleo's - could have told this story better, or at least in a way that would have felt less out of touch. The film was pretty beautiful but dramatically, a miss.
  - dguaraglia 8y ago
    I'm sure there's a great movie to be made about Cleo's life, from her perspective and showing us more of the underbelly of Mexican society at the time. My - admittedly half-assed argument - is that Cuarón might have not had that movie in mind, and analyzing the film as "Cuarón screwed up by not making the film I wanted to see" misses that point. I wish I had seen way more about the ship that comes and picks up the baby and her mother at the end of Children of Men... but the movie wasn't about them.
    - js2 8y ago
      Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. In retrospect I didn’t think much of Children of Men or Gravity either, and I can’t even remember what I thought of Y Tu Mamá También, so it apparently didn’t leave much impression on me. Maybe he’s just not my cup of tea. My upset with Roma was given how critically acclaimed it is, I was expecting a lot more. I appreciate your perspective but I still don’t think the film is worthy of the praise it’s been given. I went and read a ton of reviews after to try to understand what I might be missing and I just ended up getting more and more annoyed. Oh well.
      - nodemaker 8y ago
        Let me guess! You probably think the great gatsby is a classic.

by js2 8y ago

dguaraglia 8y ago

I grew up in Latin America, so I guess I can give you some context about some of this stuff. I am not going to defend the entertainment value of the movie, because I personally found it pretty boring (I guess the voyeuristic value isn't there for me, having grown up in a similar environment). > It sets the tone for the movie’s aesthetic and hollows it out, reducing Cuarón’s worthwhile intentions and evident passions to vain gestures. The assumption here is that Cuarón should've made the film about Cleo, by giving her a voice and explaining to us her point of view... when maybe Cuarón might be trying to show us how he was unable to really understand this person who had a very rich life outside of his world. If Cuarón's experience was always defined by a very simple interface (that of the "sirvienta" or "mucama"), then it's understandable that his version of her is a muted - one could say desaturated - version of the real person. > ...and then the family claiming they love the maid, it just isn't believable given how they've ignored her and mostly treated her like crap. Most families' relationships with their maids is super weird. My family was never affluent enough to afford one, but I had plenty of friends who had a "sirvienta" (the Argentine equivalent of Cleo's role). To the kids, the sirvienta was a second mother, to the parents the sirvienta was a friend, psychiatrist and help. All of them would talk fondly of their sirvientas as if they were part of the family... to an extent. If a sirvienta falls in hard times (be it health, money or otherwise), the family doesn't usually offer to help. In other words, as long as the sirvienta is in the house, she's part of the family. The moment she leaves, she's just an stranger they didn't really care that much for. Very strange. > Speaking of crap, the dog shit. Why the hell was that so important to Cuarón that he features it, what, a dozen times? I think this is Cuarón's rendering of the kind of things that imprint on you as a kid. I remember my first time walking around La Boca, in Buenos Aires, after living abroad for a few years. The amount of dog shit on the sidewalk was staggering. I was surprised, even though I grew up less than an hour away from there. I could see myself remembering the dog shit had I grown up in La Boca.

subpixel 8y ago
> If Cuarón's experience was always defined by a very simple interface (that of the "sirvienta" or "mucama"), then it's understandable that his version of her is a muted - one could say desaturated - version of the real person That's just rationalizing away the fact that the film's subject was poorly handled by the film's director. Someone else - and I'm not suggesting that has to be someone whose experiences more closely map to Cleo's - could have told this story better, or at least in a way that would have felt less out of touch. The film was pretty beautiful but dramatically, a miss.
- dguaraglia 8y ago
  I'm sure there's a great movie to be made about Cleo's life, from her perspective and showing us more of the underbelly of Mexican society at the time. My - admittedly half-assed argument - is that Cuarón might have not had that movie in mind, and analyzing the film as "Cuarón screwed up by not making the film I wanted to see" misses that point. I wish I had seen way more about the ship that comes and picks up the baby and her mother at the end of Children of Men... but the movie wasn't about them.
  - js2 8y ago
    Thanks for taking the time to share your thoughts. In retrospect I didn’t think much of Children of Men or Gravity either, and I can’t even remember what I thought of Y Tu Mamá También, so it apparently didn’t leave much impression on me. Maybe he’s just not my cup of tea. My upset with Roma was given how critically acclaimed it is, I was expecting a lot more. I appreciate your perspective but I still don’t think the film is worthy of the praise it’s been given. I went and read a ton of reviews after to try to understand what I might be missing and I just ended up getting more and more annoyed. Oh well.
    - nodemaker 8y ago
      Let me guess! You probably think the great gatsby is a classic.