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> This argument is obvious nonsense. No, it isn't. > There was no outcry to prevent Amazon from using general programs that were open to all applicants, the p

> This argument is obvious nonsense. No, it isn't. > There was no outcry to prevent Amazon from using general programs that were open to all applicants, the problem was with the special extras they negotiated. People were outraged over the $3B. Less than 20% of that was special extras for Amazon. I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead. Particularly since most of the arguments boil down to "billion-dollar corporations don't need tax breaks from NYC/NYS". > There's no reason to think that Amazon would have been facing opposition if they'd just announced a new project in LIC and applied for the normal programs. Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks.

CPLX 8y ago
> I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead I don't think Coldplay is very good. We all have opinions. If they wanted to see what would have happened in that scenario they should have tried it. > Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks. Well yeah. They launched a massive national PR campaign to showcase that they were demanding the highest level of special treatment. They literally engineered an auction where they were asking cities to compete to see who could give them the most taxpayer dollars. A lot of New Yorkers weren't interested in "winning" that competition. Not only could they still take advantage of the existing programs, it's almost certain that they actually still will to some extent. And as you'll see when it happens few will protest that because it wasn't the thing people were protesting against. They were protesting special treatment. Many New Yorkers felt, justifiably, like the richest man in the world and the most valuable company in the world should play by the same fucking rules as everyone else. I live here and I'm one of them.
- dajohnson89 8y ago
  Let's say that the special treatment for Amazon were eliminated. That is, only about ~%80 of the tax breaks were in effect. So now Amazon only receives ~$2.4 billion in tax breaks through the pre-existing incentive programs. This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. At any rate -- I agree with you that Amazon shouldn't have received the special tax cut, and they didn't need it, and it was foolish of the State/city leadership to offer it. I wanted AMZN to come here to NYC, but that whole charade they put on was a turn off. meh.
  - jacobr1 8y ago
    I think plenty of people don't actually like the pre-existing incentive programs either. I certainly don't. And the mutual race to the bottom across jurisdictions that makes them a requirement to compete doesn't justify them either.
  - CPLX 8y ago
    > This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. There’s literally no evidence of this. Dozens of companies, including evil empires like Google and Goldman Sachs, have taken advantage of Empire State grants and EDC programs and whatever else without all that much drama. Amazon literally shot themselves in the face with their arrogant, entitled attitude here. Consider placing the blame where it belongs.

CPLX 8y ago

> I don't think anyone would have been any less outraged if the number was $2.5B instead I don't think Coldplay is very good. We all have opinions. If they wanted to see what would have happened in that scenario they should have tried it. > Yeah, because nobody would have known. Look at all the people who assume other large companies in NYC don't get any tax breaks simply based on not hearing about said tax breaks. Well yeah. They launched a massive national PR campaign to showcase that they were demanding the highest level of special treatment. They literally engineered an auction where they were asking cities to compete to see who could give them the most taxpayer dollars. A lot of New Yorkers weren't interested in "winning" that competition. Not only could they still take advantage of the existing programs, it's almost certain that they actually still will to some extent. And as you'll see when it happens few will protest that because it wasn't the thing people were protesting against. They were protesting special treatment. Many New Yorkers felt, justifiably, like the richest man in the world and the most valuable company in the world should play by the same fucking rules as everyone else. I live here and I'm one of them.

dajohnson89 8y ago
Let's say that the special treatment for Amazon were eliminated. That is, only about ~%80 of the tax breaks were in effect. So now Amazon only receives ~$2.4 billion in tax breaks through the pre-existing incentive programs. This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. At any rate -- I agree with you that Amazon shouldn't have received the special tax cut, and they didn't need it, and it was foolish of the State/city leadership to offer it. I wanted AMZN to come here to NYC, but that whole charade they put on was a turn off. meh.
- jacobr1 8y ago
  I think plenty of people don't actually like the pre-existing incentive programs either. I certainly don't. And the mutual race to the bottom across jurisdictions that makes them a requirement to compete doesn't justify them either.
- CPLX 8y ago
  > This is pure speculation, but I suspect the opponents wouldn't have altered their tone. There’s literally no evidence of this. Dozens of companies, including evil empires like Google and Goldman Sachs, have taken advantage of Empire State grants and EDC programs and whatever else without all that much drama. Amazon literally shot themselves in the face with their arrogant, entitled attitude here. Consider placing the blame where it belongs.