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Architectural movements such as Brutalism are already making their way into web design - not in a good way, imho. They’re distractions. Web-design in my view

Architectural movements such as Brutalism are already making their way into web design - not in a good way, imho. They’re distractions. Web-design in my view should follow Swiss layout and typography which is widely considered to be the most objective, neutral, clear and universal theory of graphic design. Some parts of Swiss layout already permeate in everything we do - Grid system(Brockmann et al) for example. Or Helvetica and Univers in typography (Frutiger et al). Everything else is decoration. Obviously, if you build a website for a music band, then all bets are off. My view is about common web design.

fwip 8y ago
Why are "objective" and "neutral" desirable traits for most web pages?
- TeMPOraL 8y ago
  To steal terms from Tufte: mostly data ink, minimum chartjunk.
mr_overalls 8y ago
Decoration exists on a continuum, and I don't think it's bad as long as it's not overdone - which is a subjective judgment call, of course. Decoration exists for comfort, beauty, and usability. I particularly like this fantastic essay that explains the rationale for decoration in architecture, and how the current design preferences for stark simplicity came to be. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/why-you-hate-contemporary-architecture https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/why-you-hate-contempo... An excerpt: 'A few obvious stylistic changes characterize postwar architecture. For one, what is (now somewhat derisively) called “ornament” disappeared. At the dawn of the 20th century, American architect Louis Sullivan proclaimed the famous maxim that “form follows function.” Even though Sullivan’s own buildings were often highly ornate, adorned with elaborate Art Nouveau ironwork and Celtic-inspired masonry, “form follows function” was instantly misinterpreted as a call for stark utilitarian simplicity. A few years later, architect and theorist Adolph Loos, in a 1908 essay called “Ornament and Crime,” dramatically declared that a lack of ornamentation was a “sign of spiritual strength.” These two ideas quickly became dogmas of the architectural profession. A generation of architects with both socialistic and fascistic political leanings saw ornament as a sign of bourgeois decadence and cultural indulgence, and began discarding every design element that could be considered “mere decoration.”'
- fermienrico 8y ago
  I didn’t claim Decoration and creativity is bad and said that when it’s required for cultural, aesthetic or media appeal then it makes sense, for example a music band website. But a web framework should adopt the most neutral stance and designers can modify as they see fit. In other words, decorative frameworks as proposed by the OP that are based on an Architectural movement are not appropriate for majority of the webpages on the internet. They distract. Decoration distracts. Doesn’t mean it has no place in society. Also, Dieter Rams proved that design can be un-decorated, yet inviting, comfortable and human centric. As a direct legacy to Rams, just look at the success of Apple and it’s stance on design. Personally, I argue that Decoration is shallow and doesn’t solve the fundamental goal in design : to make products and services that interface with humans easy to interact, understand and use. Instead Decoration distracts, deludes and creates confusion. It steals clarity and intent in design. In some cases, Decoration is not honest. Can you imagine Casinos built by Tadao Ando?
  - wurst_case 8y ago
    > But a web framework should adopt the most neutral stance and designers can modify as they see fit. In other words, decorative frameworks as proposed by the OP that are based on an Architectural movement are not appropriate for majority of the webpages on the internet. This is true. Not all web pages need high decoration. Think of art nouveau Google sheets. Hah, what a nightmare that would be. But I would say we make a mistake to say that most web pages are similar. That's how we get these design philosophies to end them all. What works for material design won't necessarily work for your design. > Instead Decoration distracts, deludes and creates confusion. It steals clarity and intent in design. In some cases, Decoration is not honest. You are describing ~BAD~ decoration and design. And I totally agree with you that bad decoration is the MOST detracting thing. But good decoration actually moves your eye, body, and intent towards better function. Art deco has many leading lines that guide people towards main entrances or even displays the ethos of the organization. Intuitively I know you think this is true because a web without any decoration would look like a terminal. Grids and layouts are decoration and if used improperly will distract users as well.
  - petilon 8y ago
andrei_says_ 8y ago
Could you point to some examples? Don’t design frameworks like bootstrap foundation and material design represent utility-first design?

fwip 8y ago

Why are "objective" and "neutral" desirable traits for most web pages?

TeMPOraL 8y ago
To steal terms from Tufte: mostly data ink, minimum chartjunk.

mr_overalls 8y ago

Decoration exists on a continuum, and I don't think it's bad as long as it's not overdone - which is a subjective judgment call, of course. Decoration exists for comfort, beauty, and usability. I particularly like this fantastic essay that explains the rationale for decoration in architecture, and how the current design preferences for stark simplicity came to be. https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/why-you-hate-contemporary-architecture https://www.currentaffairs.org/2017/10/why-you-hate-contempo... An excerpt: 'A few obvious stylistic changes characterize postwar architecture. For one, what is (now somewhat derisively) called “ornament” disappeared. At the dawn of the 20th century, American architect Louis Sullivan proclaimed the famous maxim that “form follows function.” Even though Sullivan’s own buildings were often highly ornate, adorned with elaborate Art Nouveau ironwork and Celtic-inspired masonry, “form follows function” was instantly misinterpreted as a call for stark utilitarian simplicity. A few years later, architect and theorist Adolph Loos, in a 1908 essay called “Ornament and Crime,” dramatically declared that a lack of ornamentation was a “sign of spiritual strength.” These two ideas quickly became dogmas of the architectural profession. A generation of architects with both socialistic and fascistic political leanings saw ornament as a sign of bourgeois decadence and cultural indulgence, and began discarding every design element that could be considered “mere decoration.”'

fermienrico 8y ago
I didn’t claim Decoration and creativity is bad and said that when it’s required for cultural, aesthetic or media appeal then it makes sense, for example a music band website. But a web framework should adopt the most neutral stance and designers can modify as they see fit. In other words, decorative frameworks as proposed by the OP that are based on an Architectural movement are not appropriate for majority of the webpages on the internet. They distract. Decoration distracts. Doesn’t mean it has no place in society. Also, Dieter Rams proved that design can be un-decorated, yet inviting, comfortable and human centric. As a direct legacy to Rams, just look at the success of Apple and it’s stance on design. Personally, I argue that Decoration is shallow and doesn’t solve the fundamental goal in design : to make products and services that interface with humans easy to interact, understand and use. Instead Decoration distracts, deludes and creates confusion. It steals clarity and intent in design. In some cases, Decoration is not honest. Can you imagine Casinos built by Tadao Ando?
- wurst_case 8y ago
  > But a web framework should adopt the most neutral stance and designers can modify as they see fit. In other words, decorative frameworks as proposed by the OP that are based on an Architectural movement are not appropriate for majority of the webpages on the internet. This is true. Not all web pages need high decoration. Think of art nouveau Google sheets. Hah, what a nightmare that would be. But I would say we make a mistake to say that most web pages are similar. That's how we get these design philosophies to end them all. What works for material design won't necessarily work for your design. > Instead Decoration distracts, deludes and creates confusion. It steals clarity and intent in design. In some cases, Decoration is not honest. You are describing ~BAD~ decoration and design. And I totally agree with you that bad decoration is the MOST detracting thing. But good decoration actually moves your eye, body, and intent towards better function. Art deco has many leading lines that guide people towards main entrances or even displays the ethos of the organization. Intuitively I know you think this is true because a web without any decoration would look like a terminal. Grids and layouts are decoration and if used improperly will distract users as well.
- petilon 8y ago

andrei_says_ 8y ago

Could you point to some examples? Don’t design frameworks like bootstrap foundation and material design represent utility-first design?