13 ms·

Everything you've said is true. My wife is not even in tech. "the relationship deteriorates to the point where the non-working spouse goes back to their home c

Everything you've said is true. My wife is not even in tech. "the relationship deteriorates to the point where the non-working spouse goes back to their home country because they are unhappy here." - this is what we're close to right now.

optymizer 8y ago
I'm sorry to see another couple going through this. It's certainly a shitty situation, but I hope it'll work out for you.
burfog 8y ago
The difficulty of assimilating in a strange new country is enough to make many people want to go back, with or without employment. I don't think employment is the issue here. Culture shock is real. You're also away from extended family. This is difficult for many people. Native-born people, with or without both spouses working, experience relationship troubles and depression. It happens, even without the culture shock. You may have had the exact same problems had you stayed where you were born. FWIW though, there is no need for the spouse to sit around being bored out of her mind. The solution is to participate in in-person local mommy groups. Typically the moms gather together at a local park or library, bringing their little kids. The moms chat with each other while the kids do some activity together.
- optymizer 8y ago
  > The difficulty of assimilating in a strange new country is enough to make many people want to go back, with or without employment. That's applicable to one group of immigrants, namely those who don't want to assimilate. However, this discussion is about those who are perfectly OK with assimilating into the US culture. > I don't think employment is the issue here. It's absolutely the issue here. You seem to be focused on immigrants who fail to assimilate, and you're applying their problems to all other immigrants ("What's that, your spouse can't afford to pay for tuition and you are not allowed to work? well, see, it's actually very simple. You just failed to assimilate and you will soon have to go back to your country. Ha ha, one less evil immigrant to deal with!") > Native-born people, with or without both spouses working, experience relationship troubles and depression. What we're talking about here is the direct link between a government rule, and the known issues that rule has created for immigrants in the past. The argument you brought to the discussion, however, is similar to shooting an immigrant in the foot and telling them that native people also have foot pain, with or without being shot in the foot. It's non-sensical. > FWIW though, there is no need for the spouse to sit around being bored out of her mind Since you said "for what it's worth", I'll just say that it's worth exactly zero. I've already given examples of what most folks attempt to do when faced with the reality of not being able to seek employment, though you, again, chose to focus on a narrow subset of the group, extract a detail about them and then apply it to everyone else in the group. Do you notice a pattern here? > The solution is to participate in in-person local mommy groups. Finally we got to the part of your comment where you show how little you think of spouses of immigrants. Just to drive this point home: you took a detail from a subset of the group ('mommies'), and claim it will work for everyone else in the group. Again, do you notice a pattern here? Also, I've already mentioned in my comment above that a child will consume most of one's time, but also most of the limited income, so that solution 'solves the problem' by creating an even bigger problem. Sometimes it works out, some time it doesn't. We could increase the chance of success for such families if we allowed both spouses to seek employment.
  - burfog 8y ago
    The point of the visa is supposedly to bring in unusually high-value workers. The value of a worker is called into question if they need a second income. The same is true if a child consumes "most of the limited income". You should be able to afford a half dozen children and a house (4 bedroom, 3 bath, garage, fenced yard) and a car. Maybe you even send all of your kids to private school, or you pay full tuition at Harvard. The visa is supposedly not for people who just want to come take a couple ordinary jobs away from ordinary Americans. You're supposed to be extra-special and wonderful, bringing amazing value to the country. The idea is to let you try out the country, with the hope that you might become an unusually productive citizen. Anyway, if you don't like the deal, you don't have to accept the deal.
    - optymizer 8y ago
      The purpose of an H1B visa is to bring in "foreign workers in specialty occupations" (engineers, architects, etc), not foreign workers that are able to command a very high salary (e.g. CEOs). Sometimes foreign workers are able to negotiate an above average salary, sometimes they can't, because the company has a very high reputation or access to unique resources and uses that as leverage (for example, NASA, Harvard, etc). Most likely, they'll get an average salary in exchange for being able to work at the company in a first world country, so they'll be able to afford whatever the 'local' Americans are able to afford in the area. Can your average American afford a 4 bedroom house and 6 children in 2019? That's the real deal that's being sent in a Word document requiring your signature. Yes, you don't have to accept the deal, but the US government doesn't have to prevent spouses from seeking employment either, causing more issues for the immigrant families. Which one of these 2 options benefits the US more?
      - burfog 8y ago
        The average engineer can afford a 4 bedroom house and 6 children in 2019. The same goes for somebody who might be called a software architect, but not for the type of architect who draws floorplans and rooflines for houses. Maybe that doesn't work in San Francisco, but there are many other places to live in the USA. Most of the country is very affordable for somebody who can design software or hardware. As I understand it, getting an above-average salary is nearly a legal requirement. Going below average is prohibited. (one could be exactly average I think) To make a random example: $150,000 per year will have you living very well in Deerfield Beach, FL or in Georgetown, KY.

optymizer 8y ago

I'm sorry to see another couple going through this. It's certainly a shitty situation, but I hope it'll work out for you.

burfog 8y ago

The difficulty of assimilating in a strange new country is enough to make many people want to go back, with or without employment. I don't think employment is the issue here. Culture shock is real. You're also away from extended family. This is difficult for many people. Native-born people, with or without both spouses working, experience relationship troubles and depression. It happens, even without the culture shock. You may have had the exact same problems had you stayed where you were born. FWIW though, there is no need for the spouse to sit around being bored out of her mind. The solution is to participate in in-person local mommy groups. Typically the moms gather together at a local park or library, bringing their little kids. The moms chat with each other while the kids do some activity together.

optymizer 8y ago
> The difficulty of assimilating in a strange new country is enough to make many people want to go back, with or without employment. That's applicable to one group of immigrants, namely those who don't want to assimilate. However, this discussion is about those who are perfectly OK with assimilating into the US culture. > I don't think employment is the issue here. It's absolutely the issue here. You seem to be focused on immigrants who fail to assimilate, and you're applying their problems to all other immigrants ("What's that, your spouse can't afford to pay for tuition and you are not allowed to work? well, see, it's actually very simple. You just failed to assimilate and you will soon have to go back to your country. Ha ha, one less evil immigrant to deal with!") > Native-born people, with or without both spouses working, experience relationship troubles and depression. What we're talking about here is the direct link between a government rule, and the known issues that rule has created for immigrants in the past. The argument you brought to the discussion, however, is similar to shooting an immigrant in the foot and telling them that native people also have foot pain, with or without being shot in the foot. It's non-sensical. > FWIW though, there is no need for the spouse to sit around being bored out of her mind Since you said "for what it's worth", I'll just say that it's worth exactly zero. I've already given examples of what most folks attempt to do when faced with the reality of not being able to seek employment, though you, again, chose to focus on a narrow subset of the group, extract a detail about them and then apply it to everyone else in the group. Do you notice a pattern here? > The solution is to participate in in-person local mommy groups. Finally we got to the part of your comment where you show how little you think of spouses of immigrants. Just to drive this point home: you took a detail from a subset of the group ('mommies'), and claim it will work for everyone else in the group. Again, do you notice a pattern here? Also, I've already mentioned in my comment above that a child will consume most of one's time, but also most of the limited income, so that solution 'solves the problem' by creating an even bigger problem. Sometimes it works out, some time it doesn't. We could increase the chance of success for such families if we allowed both spouses to seek employment.
- burfog 8y ago
  The point of the visa is supposedly to bring in unusually high-value workers. The value of a worker is called into question if they need a second income. The same is true if a child consumes "most of the limited income". You should be able to afford a half dozen children and a house (4 bedroom, 3 bath, garage, fenced yard) and a car. Maybe you even send all of your kids to private school, or you pay full tuition at Harvard. The visa is supposedly not for people who just want to come take a couple ordinary jobs away from ordinary Americans. You're supposed to be extra-special and wonderful, bringing amazing value to the country. The idea is to let you try out the country, with the hope that you might become an unusually productive citizen. Anyway, if you don't like the deal, you don't have to accept the deal.
  - optymizer 8y ago
    The purpose of an H1B visa is to bring in "foreign workers in specialty occupations" (engineers, architects, etc), not foreign workers that are able to command a very high salary (e.g. CEOs). Sometimes foreign workers are able to negotiate an above average salary, sometimes they can't, because the company has a very high reputation or access to unique resources and uses that as leverage (for example, NASA, Harvard, etc). Most likely, they'll get an average salary in exchange for being able to work at the company in a first world country, so they'll be able to afford whatever the 'local' Americans are able to afford in the area. Can your average American afford a 4 bedroom house and 6 children in 2019? That's the real deal that's being sent in a Word document requiring your signature. Yes, you don't have to accept the deal, but the US government doesn't have to prevent spouses from seeking employment either, causing more issues for the immigrant families. Which one of these 2 options benefits the US more?
    - burfog 8y ago
      The average engineer can afford a 4 bedroom house and 6 children in 2019. The same goes for somebody who might be called a software architect, but not for the type of architect who draws floorplans and rooflines for houses. Maybe that doesn't work in San Francisco, but there are many other places to live in the USA. Most of the country is very affordable for somebody who can design software or hardware. As I understand it, getting an above-average salary is nearly a legal requirement. Going below average is prohibited. (one could be exactly average I think) To make a random example: $150,000 per year will have you living very well in Deerfield Beach, FL or in Georgetown, KY.