3 ms·

You are pinning an awful lot on that missing request (as are Yelp, probably). Before we continue, are you a lawyer or do you just play one on TV?

jhall1468 8y ago
Nope, not a lawyer. But I do have the power of common sense. You can refrain from the snide comments if this is too be a productive conversation. That request is literally the key to all of this. If they don't know he's observing a religious holiday how the hell can they be violating his rights here? Pretty sure the guy knew of Easter in advance. And while working for Yelp sounds pretty horrible, if he didn't request the day off for religious reasons I find it hard to comprehend how the company is liable for that. And for the sake of argument, I hope he did and Yelp ends up paying oodles of money for this. But I imagine that would have been very much spewing out of his lawyer's mouth if it were the case.
- klodolph 8y ago
  > But I do have the power of common sense. Are you saving it for later? (I joke, but your "common sense" assertion seems like a total non-sequitur to me.) > If they don't know he's observing a religious holiday how the hell can they be violating his rights here? He told them, it's right there in the lawsuit. > And while working for Yelp sounds pretty horrible, if he didn't request the day off for religious reasons I find it hard to comprehend how the company is liable for that. He had the day off to begin with. Normally you don't have to work during "time off". The company is liable because they fired him rather than make reasonable accommodations as required by law. This is spelled out rather clearly in the lawsuit.
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    > Are you saving it for later? (I joke, but your "common sense" assertion seems like a total non-sequitur to me.) Hilarious. > He told them, it's right there in the lawsuit. No, he told them after they attempted to contact him. That's not requesting in advance. > He had the day off to begin with Clearly he didn't. Even he says all this managers employees were emailed with the expectation they'd be available via email on weekends. That's horrible and a place I'd never work. But that's not illegal. > Normally you don't have to work during "time off". It's not "time off" if they obligate people to be available. It's permanent on-call. > The company is liable because they fired him rather than make reasonable accommodations as required by law. And their argument is going to be he didn't request reasonable accommodations because they weren't requested in a reasonable time frame. If he had a request a week in advance this wouldn't even be conversation.
- doktrin 8y ago
  First of all, you can't trot out stuff like "I have the power of common sense" while complaining about snide comments. As for due warning, they were informed of the religious observance at the time (and before Easter Sunday), and proceeded to straight up make policy on the spot that invalidated it and future religious celebrations. I asked for your qualifications not to be hostile but because legal matters are often - for better and worse - more nuanced than most people's intuition, and I don't think you have adequately addressed either the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, examined Yelp's response to the situation, or how any of this might look to a jury.
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    > First of all, you can't trot out stuff like "I have the power of common sense" while complaining about snide comments Tit for tat. > As for due warning, they were informed of the religious observance at the time (and before Easter Sunday), and proceeded to straight up make policy on the spot that invalidated it and future religious celebrations. Yes, the the day before Easter, which he also took off as apparently Easter weekend is a holiday, not just the day. > I asked for your qualifications not to be hostile but because legal matters are often - for better and worse - more nuanced than most people's intuition, and I don't think you have adequately addressed either the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, examined Yelp's response to the situation, or how any of this might look to a jury. You asked because it functioned as an ad hominem. You're part of this conversation, and haven't suggested you have any legal qualifications, which we can safely assume it means you don't. I don't need to address the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, because I'm fairly confident "the day before" isn't going to qualify. Have you read any case law on the matter? Reasonable accommodations doesn't even require that employers remove the conflict, they just need to accommodate it. The request for this "time off" was made the day he wanted to start taking said time off, for 2 days. Yelp had an "emergency" situation that obligated him be on-call. Read the standard: "Unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business." Minimal burden. Furthermore, the EEOC defines what reasonable accommodations might look like: "Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practice" How many of those can be implemented with no notice? None. The very idea that you and others think 0 days notice for religious accommodation is acceptable is so very confusing. The bar to show the request as unreasonable is exceptionally low. Almost anything can be considered more than a minor burden.
perl4ever 8y ago
If there's anybody who would be freaking out about someone not answering emails on Easter, or Christmas, or whatever, it's a lawyer, in my experience :)

jhall1468 8y ago

Nope, not a lawyer. But I do have the power of common sense. You can refrain from the snide comments if this is too be a productive conversation. That request is literally the key to all of this. If they don't know he's observing a religious holiday how the hell can they be violating his rights here? Pretty sure the guy knew of Easter in advance. And while working for Yelp sounds pretty horrible, if he didn't request the day off for religious reasons I find it hard to comprehend how the company is liable for that. And for the sake of argument, I hope he did and Yelp ends up paying oodles of money for this. But I imagine that would have been very much spewing out of his lawyer's mouth if it were the case.

klodolph 8y ago
> But I do have the power of common sense. Are you saving it for later? (I joke, but your "common sense" assertion seems like a total non-sequitur to me.) > If they don't know he's observing a religious holiday how the hell can they be violating his rights here? He told them, it's right there in the lawsuit. > And while working for Yelp sounds pretty horrible, if he didn't request the day off for religious reasons I find it hard to comprehend how the company is liable for that. He had the day off to begin with. Normally you don't have to work during "time off". The company is liable because they fired him rather than make reasonable accommodations as required by law. This is spelled out rather clearly in the lawsuit.
- jhall1468 8y ago
  > Are you saving it for later? (I joke, but your "common sense" assertion seems like a total non-sequitur to me.) Hilarious. > He told them, it's right there in the lawsuit. No, he told them after they attempted to contact him. That's not requesting in advance. > He had the day off to begin with Clearly he didn't. Even he says all this managers employees were emailed with the expectation they'd be available via email on weekends. That's horrible and a place I'd never work. But that's not illegal. > Normally you don't have to work during "time off". It's not "time off" if they obligate people to be available. It's permanent on-call. > The company is liable because they fired him rather than make reasonable accommodations as required by law. And their argument is going to be he didn't request reasonable accommodations because they weren't requested in a reasonable time frame. If he had a request a week in advance this wouldn't even be conversation.
doktrin 8y ago
First of all, you can't trot out stuff like "I have the power of common sense" while complaining about snide comments. As for due warning, they were informed of the religious observance at the time (and before Easter Sunday), and proceeded to straight up make policy on the spot that invalidated it and future religious celebrations. I asked for your qualifications not to be hostile but because legal matters are often - for better and worse - more nuanced than most people's intuition, and I don't think you have adequately addressed either the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, examined Yelp's response to the situation, or how any of this might look to a jury.
- jhall1468 8y ago
  > First of all, you can't trot out stuff like "I have the power of common sense" while complaining about snide comments Tit for tat. > As for due warning, they were informed of the religious observance at the time (and before Easter Sunday), and proceeded to straight up make policy on the spot that invalidated it and future religious celebrations. Yes, the the day before Easter, which he also took off as apparently Easter weekend is a holiday, not just the day. > I asked for your qualifications not to be hostile but because legal matters are often - for better and worse - more nuanced than most people's intuition, and I don't think you have adequately addressed either the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, examined Yelp's response to the situation, or how any of this might look to a jury. You asked because it functioned as an ad hominem. You're part of this conversation, and haven't suggested you have any legal qualifications, which we can safely assume it means you don't. I don't need to address the legal specifics of what constitutes adequate notice, because I'm fairly confident "the day before" isn't going to qualify. Have you read any case law on the matter? Reasonable accommodations doesn't even require that employers remove the conflict, they just need to accommodate it. The request for this "time off" was made the day he wanted to start taking said time off, for 2 days. Yelp had an "emergency" situation that obligated him be on-call. Read the standard: "Unless doing so would cause more than a minimal burden on the operations of the employer's business." Minimal burden. Furthermore, the EEOC defines what reasonable accommodations might look like: "Examples of some common religious accommodations include flexible scheduling, voluntary shift substitutions or swaps, job reassignments, and modifications to workplace policies or practice" How many of those can be implemented with no notice? None. The very idea that you and others think 0 days notice for religious accommodation is acceptable is so very confusing. The bar to show the request as unreasonable is exceptionally low. Almost anything can be considered more than a minor burden.

perl4ever 8y ago

If there's anybody who would be freaking out about someone not answering emails on Easter, or Christmas, or whatever, it's a lawyer, in my experience :)