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Canada, already a major center for AI innovation, will be the new silicon valley. The corollary of this is that with our punishingly high personal income and c

Canada, already a major center for AI innovation, will be the new silicon valley. The corollary of this is that with our punishingly high personal income and capital gains taxes and dearth of good exits for startups, the only thing we really have going for us is our sane points-based immigration system. I work at a company with a lot of engineers who were trying to get entry to the US and gave up and decided to work towards PR in Canada instead. We are essentially arbitraging America's dysfunctional immigration rules. If the Americans ever get smart and pass comprehensive immigration reform (hint - like Obama's Border Security, Economic Opportunity, and Immigration Modernization Act of 2013 which never got a vote in the House and withered on the vine), tech in Canada is even more screwed than it is now.

deleted 8y ago
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mabbo 8y ago
> the only thing we really have going for us is our sane points-based immigration system I lived in Seattle and enjoyed it, but staying in America long term was never an option for me. There's so much more to living in Canada than just our immigration system. Even with the pay cut for being in Canada, and even with the additional taxes, I still make enough money to not need to worry about money. More money would be nice, but it's not all that motivating. Meanwhile, those taxes go to things I think are important: a strong public education system; a health care system based on need, not wealth; a safe, gun-free society; a safe haven for refugees in need. In my office in Toronto, probably 1000+ Amazon devs could transfer to an American office and make more money. But we don't. The same goes for the even larger Vancouver office. Our immigration rules are just one aspect of why devs live here.
- CountSessine 8y ago
  I lived in Seattle and enjoyed it, but staying in America long term was never an option for me. There's so much more to living in Canada than just our immigration system. You work at AMZN - I work at a US company in Canada too. Canada is a nation of branch-offices, largely because we have no VC-ecosystem, which is largely because we're a highly redistributive country with high capital gains taxes. What makes us attractive for branch offices is that smart, hard-working, well-educated immigrants who can't make it into the US can often make it into Canada. Native born Canadians, OTOH, are leaving in droves (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-canada-facing-brain-drain-as-young-tech-talent-leaves-for-silicon/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-...) But we're a terrible place to start a company and exit, which is why it doesn't happen very often. The original poster claimed that Canada could replace Silicon Valley - that's not going to happen without a better ecosystem for funding start-ups and rewarding founders. As for those devs who choose to stay here when they could leave on a TN-1, make twice the money in the US after taxes and expenses (including health insurance and private schooling for kids), and work on more interesting problems at US companies, I encourage them to do the math. They're not doing themselves any favors living in unliveably-expensive cities earning pennies and not saving for retirement, and retirement will come a lot sooner than they think.
MrMorden 8y ago
Silly Valley and NYC aren't exactly low-tax areas, either. The difference is that in those places the pay makes up for it; if pay in Canada weren't so far behind the taxes would be a non-issue.
acchow 8y ago
> our punishingly high personal income and capital gains taxes and dearth of good exits for startups Yet, taxes are still higher in California than in Canada unless you make something like $350k+ (the crossover point used to be a bit lower but then Trump removed the State tax deduction).
- refurb 8y ago
  Canadian taxes are lower? Maybe if you’re comparing BC or Alberta (lowest taxes) to California (highest taxes). And if you ignore things like Canada’s VAT.
wbl 8y ago
Punishingly high compared to CA?

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mabbo 8y ago

> the only thing we really have going for us is our sane points-based immigration system I lived in Seattle and enjoyed it, but staying in America long term was never an option for me. There's so much more to living in Canada than just our immigration system. Even with the pay cut for being in Canada, and even with the additional taxes, I still make enough money to not need to worry about money. More money would be nice, but it's not all that motivating. Meanwhile, those taxes go to things I think are important: a strong public education system; a health care system based on need, not wealth; a safe, gun-free society; a safe haven for refugees in need. In my office in Toronto, probably 1000+ Amazon devs could transfer to an American office and make more money. But we don't. The same goes for the even larger Vancouver office. Our immigration rules are just one aspect of why devs live here.

CountSessine 8y ago
I lived in Seattle and enjoyed it, but staying in America long term was never an option for me. There's so much more to living in Canada than just our immigration system. You work at AMZN - I work at a US company in Canada too. Canada is a nation of branch-offices, largely because we have no VC-ecosystem, which is largely because we're a highly redistributive country with high capital gains taxes. What makes us attractive for branch offices is that smart, hard-working, well-educated immigrants who can't make it into the US can often make it into Canada. Native born Canadians, OTOH, are leaving in droves (https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-canada-facing-brain-drain-as-young-tech-talent-leaves-for-silicon/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/technology/article-...) But we're a terrible place to start a company and exit, which is why it doesn't happen very often. The original poster claimed that Canada could replace Silicon Valley - that's not going to happen without a better ecosystem for funding start-ups and rewarding founders. As for those devs who choose to stay here when they could leave on a TN-1, make twice the money in the US after taxes and expenses (including health insurance and private schooling for kids), and work on more interesting problems at US companies, I encourage them to do the math. They're not doing themselves any favors living in unliveably-expensive cities earning pennies and not saving for retirement, and retirement will come a lot sooner than they think.

MrMorden 8y ago

Silly Valley and NYC aren't exactly low-tax areas, either. The difference is that in those places the pay makes up for it; if pay in Canada weren't so far behind the taxes would be a non-issue.

acchow 8y ago

> our punishingly high personal income and capital gains taxes and dearth of good exits for startups Yet, taxes are still higher in California than in Canada unless you make something like $350k+ (the crossover point used to be a bit lower but then Trump removed the State tax deduction).

refurb 8y ago
Canadian taxes are lower? Maybe if you’re comparing BC or Alberta (lowest taxes) to California (highest taxes). And if you ignore things like Canada’s VAT.

wbl 8y ago

Punishingly high compared to CA?