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I was asking what you do about people who are willing or even enthusiastic about killing others, and I think this is qualitatively different from exclusionary b

I was asking what you do about people who are willing or even enthusiastic about killing others, and I think this is qualitatively different from exclusionary behavior. In our distant past, exclusion from the group may well have meant death. This is why our emotions are tuned as they are. We feel exclusion harshly. Conversely, when we exclude, we are acting from quite a harsh place. It's not as far from violence and killing as we'd like to think. But lots of people with eliminationist ideologies are perfectly willing to talk, because they wish to recruit and promote their ideological viewpoint. I'm a bit more concerned about people with eliminationist ideologies who pretend their ideologies aren't eliminationist. Yet they support mobs who would threaten and beat up "wrongthinkers" who come into their neighborhood. Especially if they're supposed to be about equality and peace and love. The historical record isn't very kind to people who espouse peace, love, solidarity, then turn out to just want to kick out and eliminate those they find disagreeable. (And I'm talking about Berkeley, FFS!) Perhaps you could furnish examples of what sort of sincere questions you see 'being treated as if they are such extremism'. Questions about the wisdom of "listen and believe" have been treated as "hate speech" instead of as a question relevant to due process and the presumption of innocence it actually is. Questions about the a failure to use non-traditional non-binary pronouns should be treated have in turn been been treated as "hate speech" instead of as a question relevant to how appellations work on campus and in society at large. It's also possible that this is a function of your perspective and you're simply not looking in the right places. I can't help feeling that you're avoiding answering the question by simply restating your opinion over and over - 'outrage mongering' 'information buble' 'groupthink' etc. Well, for one thing, outrage mongering needs to be called out. Also, the narrative being artificially propped up by the legacy media is really quite out of touch and needs to be challenged. There is a large fraction of people in legacy media who actively distort the truth and push narratives, while willfully burying certain facts that don't fit their narrative. I get that you think this is a big problem, but while you acknowledge the existence of extremists who put their ideology into violent action, it sounds like you just don't know what to do about those people I know what should be done with those people. They should be prosecuted, where there is evidence. Also, the press should be calling out their violence and authoritarian tactics. The latter isn't happening nearly as much as it should. There's a large number of incidences of quite serious violence, which is quite apparently engineered for the purposes of political pressure and silencing. Yet nearly none of the incidences from the Far Left are widely reported on, which means that most of the incidences overall are basically buried or minimized. Something is quite out of whack about that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzF3ND9IUDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AzF3ND9IUDk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr_4iR5NOxQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr_4iR5NOxQ

anigbrowl 8y ago
I've got to say that you sound an awful lot more concerned about anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces than you do about the rather large number of murders committed by proponents of some other ideologies.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  I've got to say that you sound an awful lot more concerned about anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces than you do about the rather large number of murders committed by proponents of some other ideologies. It's easier for many to be concerned about a radiation leakage in a dramatic incident like Fukushima than about the cumulative radiation released in coal plants, even though the total effect of the latter is orders of magnitude greater. There are well over 600 incidents of violence committed by the Far Left just in the past few years. The widespread phenomenon of tenured college professors being afraid to speak their mind is a part of the same environmental phenomenon. It's not just "anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces." The phenomenon is much more widespread and insidious than that. It's true that historically in the past 30 years or so, the Far Right extremists have the higher death toll. As noted in a Forbes article, violent Far Right extremists have killed far more people than violent Far Left extremists since 1992, the trend has dramatically reversed: "Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time, about 0.7% of the total number of murders, but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed five since then, including Charlottesville." https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideology-has-inspired-the-most-murders-in-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideol... Imagine what it would be like, if you spoke out against Antifa violence, then got a non-sequitur accusation of racism. Later, you get another such tarring accusation in response to a wedding invite. Later, you talk about this, and a musician you know comes up with the logical gem: Well, you got accused, you must be one! Then he starts in repeating the accusation -- specifically in the context of your wedding. This is the sort of immoral and downright sadistic tactic people like that employ. I know this firsthand. Are you familiar with what the Antifa goons who attacked the innocent marines who were going to a dance were saying? They were talking like they were stereotypical sadistic KKK bigots as they were beating those men down. Really vile racist stuff. And that's just one incident. That sort of thuggish behavior and language is all over the record of recent history. Let me reiterate, the Far Left side has well over 600 documented incidents to their score, 13 or which were fatal. It's no better if you start talking to them online about their ideology. Really, the best many of them can do is literally, the other side is worse, so we can do nearly equally bad things as them. Start looking deeply into what those "anarchists running around Berkeley giving centrists a hard time" are really like, and what they're really up to. All toxic extremists are toxic, obviously. Only one side is getting a free pass from the press at this time, however.

anigbrowl 8y ago

I've got to say that you sound an awful lot more concerned about anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces than you do about the rather large number of murders committed by proponents of some other ideologies.

stcredzero 8y ago
I've got to say that you sound an awful lot more concerned about anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces than you do about the rather large number of murders committed by proponents of some other ideologies. It's easier for many to be concerned about a radiation leakage in a dramatic incident like Fukushima than about the cumulative radiation released in coal plants, even though the total effect of the latter is orders of magnitude greater. There are well over 600 incidents of violence committed by the Far Left just in the past few years. The widespread phenomenon of tenured college professors being afraid to speak their mind is a part of the same environmental phenomenon. It's not just "anarchists running around Berkeley and giving centrists a hard time in social spaces." The phenomenon is much more widespread and insidious than that. It's true that historically in the past 30 years or so, the Far Right extremists have the higher death toll. As noted in a Forbes article, violent Far Right extremists have killed far more people than violent Far Left extremists since 1992, the trend has dramatically reversed: "Left Wing terrorists killed only 23 people in terrorist attacks during this time, about 0.7% of the total number of murders, but 13 since the beginning of 2016. Nationalist and Right Wing terrorists have only killed five since then, including Charlottesville." https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideology-has-inspired-the-most-murders-in-terrorist-attacks-on-u-s-soil/ https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2017/08/21/which-ideol... Imagine what it would be like, if you spoke out against Antifa violence, then got a non-sequitur accusation of racism. Later, you get another such tarring accusation in response to a wedding invite. Later, you talk about this, and a musician you know comes up with the logical gem: Well, you got accused, you must be one! Then he starts in repeating the accusation -- specifically in the context of your wedding. This is the sort of immoral and downright sadistic tactic people like that employ. I know this firsthand. Are you familiar with what the Antifa goons who attacked the innocent marines who were going to a dance were saying? They were talking like they were stereotypical sadistic KKK bigots as they were beating those men down. Really vile racist stuff. And that's just one incident. That sort of thuggish behavior and language is all over the record of recent history. Let me reiterate, the Far Left side has well over 600 documented incidents to their score, 13 or which were fatal. It's no better if you start talking to them online about their ideology. Really, the best many of them can do is literally, the other side is worse, so we can do nearly equally bad things as them. Start looking deeply into what those "anarchists running around Berkeley giving centrists a hard time" are really like, and what they're really up to. All toxic extremists are toxic, obviously. Only one side is getting a free pass from the press at this time, however.