5 ms·

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself

I think we're focusing on the wrong thing here (broadly), which is mocking the guy making $1.2m a year. Yes, that's a lot of money, and almost all of us (myself included) struggle to see how to spend that money. But at the same time, I feel some empathy for that guy - he's increased his expenses proportionally and he feels trapped doing something he doesn't enjoy with no end in sight. I know I've moved my expenses up and to the right since graduating college and starting a professional job. But all of this is a distraction - at the end of the article, the author speaks about the people who are happy and satisfied in their careers - and broadly it seems like people who have autonomy and a sense of purpose in what they do. I run a small business and broadly enjoy working, so things like the Financial Independence movement don't really make sense to me. More money, less money - this is not the crux of the issue. Engagement and autonomy are some of the keys to a fulfilling work life.

SZJX 8y ago
This makes a lot of sense. Retiring early doesn't necessarily make people happy. In fact many could feel lost and unhappy since they're not contributing anything meaningful to the community anymore. A lot of advice mentioned working a job where you feel autonomy and passion, which I think does make a lot of sense and probably should be the way to go.
JDiculous 8y ago
Most people don't have the luxury of being their own bosses. For these people, financial independence will enable them to leave their unfulfilling jobs and pursue their own passions, whether it be starting a small business like you or getting a job that pays less but is more fulfilling. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck with little savings, and thus don't have the freedom to walk away from their jobs.
- seem_2211 8y ago
  If you are saving towards financial independence you have the luxury of choosing if you'd like to be your own boss, or indeed if you'd like a job that pays less. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, but those are not the people who are saving for FI.
  - DonnyV 8y ago
    I think you assume people who are living paycheck to paycheck to be people that are just don't know how to manage their finances. If so, you would be massively wrong. Most people living paycheck to paycheck are people that usually got a horrible start at life with some bad luck thrown in. Maybe raised by a single parent who couldn't give the extra attention, so they fell behind in school. Maybe people who sickly as kids. Maybe people just born into poor families with bad habits. The list is endless. Yes this sometimes create people that were never given or taught the tools of proper finance but most just got the shit end of the stick. Or they made 1 bad choice and then couldn't get out of that hole.
    - seem_2211 8y ago
      Yes, but we aren't talking about poor people in this article. We are talking about people who earn a lot of money. In the parent comment I start by talking about a guy who's earning $1.2m a year.
      - sinker 8y ago
        Right it's in the title: "America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable"
    - someguydave 8y ago
      Or, maybe they have a high time preference that was inherited in their genes.
tathougies 8y ago
> so things like the Financial Independence movement don't really make sense to me > Engagement and autonomy are some of the keys to a fulfilling work life. Isn't the second point exactly what most Financial Independence proponents are seeking FI for? I imagine most work (Mr Money Mustache, a prominent FI spokesman, certainly still engages in activities that would qualify)..
raverbashing 8y ago
Lifestyle inflation is a very easy trap to fall into and hard to get out of. Suddenly you feel like you have to have a fancy car, to live in a fancy neighborhood and get a $5 soy detox tea every morning and $300 a month crossfit/hot yoga/dance pilates classes or something like that
- arbol 8y ago
  You're just describing weak willed people.
brightball 8y ago
The crux of feeling trapped from increasing expenses with your income usually comes down to loans that you have to continue to pay off (or a contractual obligation). It's one of the reasons a lot of people see value in paying off their home earlier even though stock market investments are usually the better long term bet. There's a degree of freedom that comes from knowing your cost of living can essentially be utilities and food if your income was suddenly interrupted.
alexhutcheson 8y ago
"Lifestyle inflation" doesn't necessarily just mean nice vacations and fancy cars - education expenses for children are often a huge part of it. In the major coastal metros, living in a great school district or paying for an equivalent-quality private school is a tremendous expense. Parents also feel pressure to save enough to send their children to the best college or university that they can get into, which can be a $300,000+ expense. For many parents, these expenses are non-negotiable - "downsizing" in this area is off the table. I think there's a fair case that these parents are locked in a society-wide arms race: everyone would be better off if the kids were under less pressure to get the "best" education credentials possible, but almost everyone thinks they would be worse off if they unilaterally "disarmed".
- ijpoijpoihpiuoh 8y ago
  You don't need nearly the income described in this article to live in the neighborhoods in NYC with excellent public schools. The price of entry is below $200k after tax income, assuming you demand three bedrooms in your apartment, less if you can make do with two. Source: I live in such a neighborhood. Saving for college is a thing, but one year at this income is enough to sock away an entire college education.
  - alexhutcheson 8y ago
    True, although many families aren't willing to deal with the pressure and risk of the NYC high school application process.
    - ijpoijpoihpiuoh 8y ago
      In a good neighborhood, your only risk is that you will go to a very good school instead of a great one. Look, it's not that I don't have any sympathy. My household makes about as much as this guy and live in a similar situation, although apparently I like my job much more. Doesn't mean my life is without problems. Doesn't mean I don't get sad sometimes. But there are ways to mitigate the downside we have access to which most families simply don't, because they don't have the excess income. Also 99.9% chance this guy actually spends a ton more than he really needs to and therefore has trapped himself. Again, I'm not without sympathy, but this is one problem no social program will ever target. If you're to dig out of your spending habits you really will have to do it by your own bootstraps. Find a therapist, cut up your credit cards, whatever is necessary. If someone making $1M per year really wants to get out from under, there are in the best possible position to do so.
ryandrake 8y ago
I'd be 100% fine with working like a dog for $1.2M a year in a job I hated, spending as little as possible, if it meant after N<=5 years I'd have enough to retire and that work would be optional. After that, I'll happily obtain my "sense of purpose and satisfaction" doing hobbies or serving the community in the time I'd otherwise be working. Have not found that job offer yet, but if you know of it, E-mail in profile :-) I won't hold my breath.
- mnm1 8y ago
  The guy mentioned in this story certainly has that job. In 5 years, he'll make $6 million. That should be plenty to retire on if invested correctly.
  - ryandrake 8y ago
    Yea, I know those jobs exist--they're just not open to working class schmucks like us. I can say for certain that if I accumulated $6 million after five years of work, those would be the last five years I ever worked.

SZJX 8y ago

This makes a lot of sense. Retiring early doesn't necessarily make people happy. In fact many could feel lost and unhappy since they're not contributing anything meaningful to the community anymore. A lot of advice mentioned working a job where you feel autonomy and passion, which I think does make a lot of sense and probably should be the way to go.

JDiculous 8y ago

Most people don't have the luxury of being their own bosses. For these people, financial independence will enable them to leave their unfulfilling jobs and pursue their own passions, whether it be starting a small business like you or getting a job that pays less but is more fulfilling. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck with little savings, and thus don't have the freedom to walk away from their jobs.

seem_2211 8y ago
If you are saving towards financial independence you have the luxury of choosing if you'd like to be your own boss, or indeed if you'd like a job that pays less. Most people are living paycheck to paycheck, but those are not the people who are saving for FI.
- DonnyV 8y ago
  I think you assume people who are living paycheck to paycheck to be people that are just don't know how to manage their finances. If so, you would be massively wrong. Most people living paycheck to paycheck are people that usually got a horrible start at life with some bad luck thrown in. Maybe raised by a single parent who couldn't give the extra attention, so they fell behind in school. Maybe people who sickly as kids. Maybe people just born into poor families with bad habits. The list is endless. Yes this sometimes create people that were never given or taught the tools of proper finance but most just got the shit end of the stick. Or they made 1 bad choice and then couldn't get out of that hole.
  - seem_2211 8y ago
    Yes, but we aren't talking about poor people in this article. We are talking about people who earn a lot of money. In the parent comment I start by talking about a guy who's earning $1.2m a year.
    - sinker 8y ago
      Right it's in the title: "America’s Professional Elite: Wealthy, Successful and Miserable"
  - someguydave 8y ago
    Or, maybe they have a high time preference that was inherited in their genes.

tathougies 8y ago

> so things like the Financial Independence movement don't really make sense to me > Engagement and autonomy are some of the keys to a fulfilling work life. Isn't the second point exactly what most Financial Independence proponents are seeking FI for? I imagine most work (Mr Money Mustache, a prominent FI spokesman, certainly still engages in activities that would qualify)..

raverbashing 8y ago

Lifestyle inflation is a very easy trap to fall into and hard to get out of. Suddenly you feel like you have to have a fancy car, to live in a fancy neighborhood and get a $5 soy detox tea every morning and $300 a month crossfit/hot yoga/dance pilates classes or something like that

arbol 8y ago
You're just describing weak willed people.

brightball 8y ago

The crux of feeling trapped from increasing expenses with your income usually comes down to loans that you have to continue to pay off (or a contractual obligation). It's one of the reasons a lot of people see value in paying off their home earlier even though stock market investments are usually the better long term bet. There's a degree of freedom that comes from knowing your cost of living can essentially be utilities and food if your income was suddenly interrupted.

alexhutcheson 8y ago

"Lifestyle inflation" doesn't necessarily just mean nice vacations and fancy cars - education expenses for children are often a huge part of it. In the major coastal metros, living in a great school district or paying for an equivalent-quality private school is a tremendous expense. Parents also feel pressure to save enough to send their children to the best college or university that they can get into, which can be a $300,000+ expense. For many parents, these expenses are non-negotiable - "downsizing" in this area is off the table. I think there's a fair case that these parents are locked in a society-wide arms race: everyone would be better off if the kids were under less pressure to get the "best" education credentials possible, but almost everyone thinks they would be worse off if they unilaterally "disarmed".

ijpoijpoihpiuoh 8y ago
You don't need nearly the income described in this article to live in the neighborhoods in NYC with excellent public schools. The price of entry is below $200k after tax income, assuming you demand three bedrooms in your apartment, less if you can make do with two. Source: I live in such a neighborhood. Saving for college is a thing, but one year at this income is enough to sock away an entire college education.
- alexhutcheson 8y ago
  True, although many families aren't willing to deal with the pressure and risk of the NYC high school application process.
  - ijpoijpoihpiuoh 8y ago
    In a good neighborhood, your only risk is that you will go to a very good school instead of a great one. Look, it's not that I don't have any sympathy. My household makes about as much as this guy and live in a similar situation, although apparently I like my job much more. Doesn't mean my life is without problems. Doesn't mean I don't get sad sometimes. But there are ways to mitigate the downside we have access to which most families simply don't, because they don't have the excess income. Also 99.9% chance this guy actually spends a ton more than he really needs to and therefore has trapped himself. Again, I'm not without sympathy, but this is one problem no social program will ever target. If you're to dig out of your spending habits you really will have to do it by your own bootstraps. Find a therapist, cut up your credit cards, whatever is necessary. If someone making $1M per year really wants to get out from under, there are in the best possible position to do so.

ryandrake 8y ago

I'd be 100% fine with working like a dog for $1.2M a year in a job I hated, spending as little as possible, if it meant after N<=5 years I'd have enough to retire and that work would be optional. After that, I'll happily obtain my "sense of purpose and satisfaction" doing hobbies or serving the community in the time I'd otherwise be working. Have not found that job offer yet, but if you know of it, E-mail in profile :-) I won't hold my breath.

mnm1 8y ago
The guy mentioned in this story certainly has that job. In 5 years, he'll make $6 million. That should be plenty to retire on if invested correctly.
- ryandrake 8y ago
  Yea, I know those jobs exist--they're just not open to working class schmucks like us. I can say for certain that if I accumulated $6 million after five years of work, those would be the last five years I ever worked.