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> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? When people started having personal choices that af

> When did it become acceptable to straight up disrespect someone to their face for their personal choices? When people started having personal choices that affected the people around them. So: since always.

notacoward 8y ago
I think you're answering a different question than was asked. When did it become acceptable to politely suggest a different personal choice? Since always, as you say. When did it become acceptable to disrespect them for a personal choice? Pretty recently, and should have been never. That includes the personal choice to rationalize that kind of condescending priggishness online. What kind of person gets their jollies that way? Those who live by the sword, and all that. Maybe it would be better if we could all express the same ideas in more respectful and collaborative ways, at least to start with.
- geofft 8y ago
  The article doesn't have enough detail to conclude whether "admonished" meant politely or with disrespect.
  - burger_moon 8y ago
    In what situation would you walk up to a stranger and tell them to be mindful of themselves for carrying a plastic water bottle and it's not disrespectful. Mind your own business maybe?
    - mithr 8y ago
      > In what situation would you walk up to a stranger Walking up to a stranger is one thing, but that really wasn't the case here... in this case, a comment was made to company-appointed P.R. representative who was present at a meeting with a journalist who was there to write about the company, its values, and its culture. I think the founder of the company commenting on the same company's P.R. person not adhering to the company's values is very much him "minding his own business".
    - geofft 8y ago
      When the stranger works for you and you literally own the business and part of the business's PR strategy is environmentalism and the stranger's job is PR and they're talking to s reporter, I would say it's your business and this is appropriate minding.
  - notacoward 8y ago
    Exactly. The article didn't mention disrespect, but BucketSort did. Two different questions. When peteretep replied to one with an answer only applicable to the other, it seemed worth pointing out.
    - BucketSort 8y ago
      It's absolutely disrespectful to "admonish" someone in a meeting like this. I mean, it is basically saying "you are making shitty choices." If you were a friend, that's another matter. I'm still trying to back the idea that there should be a civil barrier of respect that is not crossed in formal dealings. If someone is dealing with you in a capacity that their job demands, you should treat them as a person in that capacity. They don't necessarily want to be there, they must be. The last thing you want is for people to get personal. I'm obviously not just talking about this situation, but the way we conduct ourselves in general. It makes navigating society much easier when people respect these boundaries.
- peteretep 8y ago
  Not all personal choices warrant civility, and it’s not always possible for someone negatively affected by other people’s personal choices to be civil.
  - notacoward 8y ago
    > Not all personal choices warrant civility True in some cases, but would you seriously put a single-use bottle into that category? The harm from that, while undeniably real, doesn't seem immediate or severe enough to justify jumping past civility to disrespect. You made a statement that disrespect is generally acceptable, and I disagree. While there are exceptions, disrespect should generally be avoided. To make the point even more bluntly, I think normalizing disrespect makes assholes of us all.
    - peteretep 8y ago
      I don’t believe that incivility and disrespect are synonyms. It’s possible to rob someone blind in a civilised way, and equally to bluntly do someone a good turn. You’re jumping backwards and forwards between the specific and the general here, but yes, I think it’s appropriate to admonish a PR person who knows there’s a journalist around for being off brand because _that’s literally their job_. To speak to “it makes assholes of all of us”, appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history of being used to oppress people, cf tone policing.
      - notacoward 8y ago
        > appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history So does rejection of civility and politeness. Those who would marginalize or oppress others always start by placing them outside the sphere of social conventions, then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing" when they're called on their behavior toward anyone not of their own tribe.
        peteretep 8y ago
        > then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing" I suspect the set of people who've complained about both political correctness _and_ tone policing is precisely zero.

notacoward 8y ago

I think you're answering a different question than was asked. When did it become acceptable to politely suggest a different personal choice? Since always, as you say. When did it become acceptable to disrespect them for a personal choice? Pretty recently, and should have been never. That includes the personal choice to rationalize that kind of condescending priggishness online. What kind of person gets their jollies that way? Those who live by the sword, and all that. Maybe it would be better if we could all express the same ideas in more respectful and collaborative ways, at least to start with.

geofft 8y ago
The article doesn't have enough detail to conclude whether "admonished" meant politely or with disrespect.
- burger_moon 8y ago
  In what situation would you walk up to a stranger and tell them to be mindful of themselves for carrying a plastic water bottle and it's not disrespectful. Mind your own business maybe?
  - mithr 8y ago
    > In what situation would you walk up to a stranger Walking up to a stranger is one thing, but that really wasn't the case here... in this case, a comment was made to company-appointed P.R. representative who was present at a meeting with a journalist who was there to write about the company, its values, and its culture. I think the founder of the company commenting on the same company's P.R. person not adhering to the company's values is very much him "minding his own business".
  - geofft 8y ago
    When the stranger works for you and you literally own the business and part of the business's PR strategy is environmentalism and the stranger's job is PR and they're talking to s reporter, I would say it's your business and this is appropriate minding.
- notacoward 8y ago
  Exactly. The article didn't mention disrespect, but BucketSort did. Two different questions. When peteretep replied to one with an answer only applicable to the other, it seemed worth pointing out.
  - BucketSort 8y ago
    It's absolutely disrespectful to "admonish" someone in a meeting like this. I mean, it is basically saying "you are making shitty choices." If you were a friend, that's another matter. I'm still trying to back the idea that there should be a civil barrier of respect that is not crossed in formal dealings. If someone is dealing with you in a capacity that their job demands, you should treat them as a person in that capacity. They don't necessarily want to be there, they must be. The last thing you want is for people to get personal. I'm obviously not just talking about this situation, but the way we conduct ourselves in general. It makes navigating society much easier when people respect these boundaries.
peteretep 8y ago
Not all personal choices warrant civility, and it’s not always possible for someone negatively affected by other people’s personal choices to be civil.
- notacoward 8y ago
  > Not all personal choices warrant civility True in some cases, but would you seriously put a single-use bottle into that category? The harm from that, while undeniably real, doesn't seem immediate or severe enough to justify jumping past civility to disrespect. You made a statement that disrespect is generally acceptable, and I disagree. While there are exceptions, disrespect should generally be avoided. To make the point even more bluntly, I think normalizing disrespect makes assholes of us all.
  - peteretep 8y ago
    I don’t believe that incivility and disrespect are synonyms. It’s possible to rob someone blind in a civilised way, and equally to bluntly do someone a good turn. You’re jumping backwards and forwards between the specific and the general here, but yes, I think it’s appropriate to admonish a PR person who knows there’s a journalist around for being off brand because _that’s literally their job_. To speak to “it makes assholes of all of us”, appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history of being used to oppress people, cf tone policing.
    - notacoward 8y ago
      > appeals to civility and politeness have a long and sordid history So does rejection of civility and politeness. Those who would marginalize or oppress others always start by placing them outside the sphere of social conventions, then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing" when they're called on their behavior toward anyone not of their own tribe.
      - peteretep 8y ago
        > then complain about "political correctness" and "tone policing" I suspect the set of people who've complained about both political correctness _and_ tone policing is precisely zero.