6 ms·

HSBC allegedly laundered (not revenue, not profit, they laundered) $880 million. They were fined $1.9 billion. Not "fined about half"

tc313 8y ago
I think he meant half of $4.2 billion.
- misiti3780 8y ago
  indeed i did thanks
onetimemanytime 8y ago
They were fined on what they were caught, not on what they did. They seem to keep repeating such schemes time and time again. Unless execs are jailed, this is cost of doing business. At some point an exec either said, "let's do it," or closed his eyes and ears.
- Loic 8y ago
  This time the fine was calculated based on the recovery rates from the French people retrieving their money back to France (the law changed drastically in France and to avoid jail time, many people brought back money from Switzerland). This gave the government statistics to evaluate the effective fraud and thus calculate the corresponding fine. Of course, over the years, we can be pretty sure that UBS made more money out of these schemes than the fine and they are most likely having such a scheme running right now which may be discovered in 10 years if we are lucky.
  - nraynaud 8y ago
    I like the idea: ”here is our best estimation, you can counter it by providing us with some documentation”
Shaanie 8y ago
Not sure if you need the "allegedly" when they admitted to the laundering.
- missedthecue 8y ago
  The terms of the agreement was a fine without an admission of guilt. So in the interest of jurisprudence, allegedly is the correct word to use in this situation.
thefounder 8y ago
They were caught with $880 millions. That doesn't mean they laundered only that.
- HenryBemis 8y ago
  People and 'the News' most times don't read the details, which is logical since we never get the full reports on our hands. The scope of the audit/examination should document the limitations/boundaries of the examination. E.g. X, Y, and Z, countries, A, B, and C subsidiaries, for the period of dd/mm/yyyy to dd/mm/yyyy. And which transactions where checked? All deposits? From all business lines? E.g. bank deposits OR their investment brokers? There are many ways to get money in a large Banking group like UBS, HSBC, and others. They have become Lernaea Hydras and for a good reason.
misiti3780 8y ago
i meant roughly half of the 4.2

tc313 8y ago

I think he meant half of $4.2 billion.

misiti3780 8y ago
indeed i did thanks

onetimemanytime 8y ago

They were fined on what they were caught, not on what they did. They seem to keep repeating such schemes time and time again. Unless execs are jailed, this is cost of doing business. At some point an exec either said, "let's do it," or closed his eyes and ears.

Loic 8y ago
This time the fine was calculated based on the recovery rates from the French people retrieving their money back to France (the law changed drastically in France and to avoid jail time, many people brought back money from Switzerland). This gave the government statistics to evaluate the effective fraud and thus calculate the corresponding fine. Of course, over the years, we can be pretty sure that UBS made more money out of these schemes than the fine and they are most likely having such a scheme running right now which may be discovered in 10 years if we are lucky.
- nraynaud 8y ago
  I like the idea: ”here is our best estimation, you can counter it by providing us with some documentation”

Shaanie 8y ago

Not sure if you need the "allegedly" when they admitted to the laundering.

missedthecue 8y ago
The terms of the agreement was a fine without an admission of guilt. So in the interest of jurisprudence, allegedly is the correct word to use in this situation.

thefounder 8y ago

They were caught with $880 millions. That doesn't mean they laundered only that.

HenryBemis 8y ago
People and 'the News' most times don't read the details, which is logical since we never get the full reports on our hands. The scope of the audit/examination should document the limitations/boundaries of the examination. E.g. X, Y, and Z, countries, A, B, and C subsidiaries, for the period of dd/mm/yyyy to dd/mm/yyyy. And which transactions where checked? All deposits? From all business lines? E.g. bank deposits OR their investment brokers? There are many ways to get money in a large Banking group like UBS, HSBC, and others. They have become Lernaea Hydras and for a good reason.

misiti3780 8y ago

i meant roughly half of the 4.2