8 ms·

While we are on the subject of downvotes, I'd love to have it require a comment (reason) to downvote. Not knowing why something gets downvoted is super frustrat

by tabtab 8y ago

While we are on the subject of downvotes, I'd love to have it require a comment (reason) to downvote. Not knowing why something gets downvoted is super frustrating. The comment doesn't have to be visible in the default listing; it perhaps can be a side option/listing or pop-up.

consumer451 8y ago
> I'd love to have it require a comment (reason) to downvote This has been something I’ve wanted to see in Reddit for a while now. I just recently learned that lobste.rs has this feature, and some other interesting stuff like a public mod-log. https://lobste.rs/about https://lobste.rs/about I’d like to add a disclaimer that there may be very good reasons not to do this on Reddit or HN, of which I am not aware.
- dvtrn 8y ago
  Personally I've long wished we would just get rid of any type of approval signalling behavior for comments (across the web too, not just HN or reddit). Probably (almost certainly likely) in the minority on that one, though.
  - jplayer01 8y ago
    It allows more substantive and interesting comments to wander upwards and be more easily accessible/visible. I feel it works fine on HN, not sure why you'd want to remove that feature. Not all comments are equal and we shouldn't have to treat them that way.
    - dvtrn 8y ago
      It allows more substantive and interesting comments to wander upwards and be more easily accessible/visible. I used to believe that, honestly, really did. Not anymore, not after watching how many communities actually behave themselves with vote mechanisms. One of those moments where something "looks good on paper" but not as much when the rubber meets the road, I'm finding a very real personal dislike with approval signaling/seeking features in online discussion groups. "Not all comments are equal" I don't believe that either. Maybe it's just a matter of my perspectives changing after the last 17 years on the internet, which is fine. Everyone has a different experience with it. This same fatigue with "approval signaling" on online commentary extends all the way to Facebook and Twitter, which one of the many reasons I'm no longer on either platform. Reddit is probably the next go go, for all sorts of reasons, if I were to list them, "approval signaling" will most undoubtedly be on the list, but probably further down comparatively. But I should also clarify, I didn't mean to directly advocate a full out feature request and say "get rid of up and downvotes" right here and now on HN, I was kind of thinking through my keyboard there, I full well realize that feature very likely isn't going anywhere here.
tptacek 8y ago
It's not going to happen; it's part of the ethos of the site to downvote in lieu of writing insubstantial criticisms, a policy Paul Graham actually wrote out once long ago. It's the right policy, I think. The last thing we need are dozens more one-line "why this sucks" comments on each thread.
- tabtab 8y ago
  Re: The last thing we need are dozens more one-line "why this sucks" comments on each thread. The reasons can be semi-hidden. They don't have be part of the default visible thread. A small hyperlink or icon could be clicked on to view them. One doesn't see them unless they want to.
- jdavis703 8y ago
  Some posts clearly deserve downvoting, for example trolling or spamming. I have however either made some controversial or unintentionally ignorant comments that have been downvoted. In those cases it would’ve been helpful to know why people thought an opinion or fact was wrong.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    That happens anyways. When people have things to say on HN, they tend to say them. It's not an either/or thing.
    - tabtab 8y ago
      Not often enough, in my opinion and observation.
  - james_s_tayler 8y ago
    People naturally chime in with "here's why you might wanna rethink that" comments all the time. I think the system works without mandating negativity even though I share your frustration sometimes.
- craftyguy 8y ago

by tabtab 8y ago

consumer451 8y ago

> I'd love to have it require a comment (reason) to downvote This has been something I’ve wanted to see in Reddit for a while now. I just recently learned that lobste.rs has this feature, and some other interesting stuff like a public mod-log. https://lobste.rs/about https://lobste.rs/about I’d like to add a disclaimer that there may be very good reasons not to do this on Reddit or HN, of which I am not aware.

dvtrn 8y ago
Personally I've long wished we would just get rid of any type of approval signalling behavior for comments (across the web too, not just HN or reddit). Probably (almost certainly likely) in the minority on that one, though.
- jplayer01 8y ago
  It allows more substantive and interesting comments to wander upwards and be more easily accessible/visible. I feel it works fine on HN, not sure why you'd want to remove that feature. Not all comments are equal and we shouldn't have to treat them that way.
  - dvtrn 8y ago
    It allows more substantive and interesting comments to wander upwards and be more easily accessible/visible. I used to believe that, honestly, really did. Not anymore, not after watching how many communities actually behave themselves with vote mechanisms. One of those moments where something "looks good on paper" but not as much when the rubber meets the road, I'm finding a very real personal dislike with approval signaling/seeking features in online discussion groups. "Not all comments are equal" I don't believe that either. Maybe it's just a matter of my perspectives changing after the last 17 years on the internet, which is fine. Everyone has a different experience with it. This same fatigue with "approval signaling" on online commentary extends all the way to Facebook and Twitter, which one of the many reasons I'm no longer on either platform. Reddit is probably the next go go, for all sorts of reasons, if I were to list them, "approval signaling" will most undoubtedly be on the list, but probably further down comparatively. But I should also clarify, I didn't mean to directly advocate a full out feature request and say "get rid of up and downvotes" right here and now on HN, I was kind of thinking through my keyboard there, I full well realize that feature very likely isn't going anywhere here.

tptacek 8y ago

It's not going to happen; it's part of the ethos of the site to downvote in lieu of writing insubstantial criticisms, a policy Paul Graham actually wrote out once long ago. It's the right policy, I think. The last thing we need are dozens more one-line "why this sucks" comments on each thread.

tabtab 8y ago
Re: The last thing we need are dozens more one-line "why this sucks" comments on each thread. The reasons can be semi-hidden. They don't have be part of the default visible thread. A small hyperlink or icon could be clicked on to view them. One doesn't see them unless they want to.
jdavis703 8y ago
Some posts clearly deserve downvoting, for example trolling or spamming. I have however either made some controversial or unintentionally ignorant comments that have been downvoted. In those cases it would’ve been helpful to know why people thought an opinion or fact was wrong.
- tptacek 8y ago
  That happens anyways. When people have things to say on HN, they tend to say them. It's not an either/or thing.
  - tabtab 8y ago
    Not often enough, in my opinion and observation.
- james_s_tayler 8y ago
  People naturally chime in with "here's why you might wanna rethink that" comments all the time. I think the system works without mandating negativity even though I share your frustration sometimes.
craftyguy 8y ago