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I don't think it's that simple and I don't see why it's a given that refs are bent. There is far more money at stake in maintaining the legitimacy of the the N

by jds375 8y ago

I don't think it's that simple and I don't see why it's a given that refs are bent. There is far more money at stake in maintaining the legitimacy of the the NBA (player salaries, tv deals, team valuations - all of these easily trump all the money made off of betting). Wouldn't that money fight a lot harder than any bent refs in order to fight corruption and maintain the legitimacy of the NBA? If a bigger story about bent refs got out it would destroy the NBA and a lot of the associated revenue. I'm sure the NBA is aware of this. I'm not arguing that there is no corruption, but I don't see why it's so 'obviously' commonplace as you and others suggest. I'd like a more concrete reason why than 'its good for marketing' since that seems like a weak argument in the bigger picture of money made from the NBA.

drenvuk 8y ago
If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard.
- privong 8y ago
  > If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard. This should be fairly easy to test with play-by-play data[0]. I don't have time to do it just this moment, but I may give it a stab later. [0] https://eightthirtyfour.com/data https://eightthirtyfour.com/data
  - UweSchmidt 8y ago
    I am sure such a study would be interesting to a wide audience.
    - privong 8y ago
      Thanks. If I manage to work through it, I'll put it online somewhere (and post the link to HN).
avn2109 8y ago
This isn't a ref throwing games for kickbacks, but it's surprising that nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the most blatant game-fixing in league history, which was the 1984 Lakers-Celtics finals. In this series, the league thought their predominantly-White fanbase needed to see Larry Bird (who is White) win the series. (Spoiler alert: Celtics won in 7). Some of the highlights (lowlights?) of Magic Johnson blatantly throwing the series (especially the first play in this video, sending game 1 into overtime) are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc&t=91s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc&t=91s The comments on the youtube are interesting, lots of people call it game fixing. Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance. Downthread there is also a reference to the infamous "Phoenix Suns Free Throw Parade" 1993 game 7 WCF (in which the Suns went 57 for 64 from the line, not a typo), which was also overtly thrown by the league for revenue reasons.
- baumy 8y ago
  Former competitive basketball player here, still play pickup regularly. "Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance" is blatant hyperbole. I could not possibly disagree with you more re: 1984 Lakers/Celtics, and I'm a huge Lakers fan who'd love to believe they were really the better team. I'm not going to bother to click on the video, but I'm sure you're referring to Magic dribbling the clock out at the end of game 2, and throwing the ball away at the end of game 4? These are called mistakes, and they get made all the time. Steph Curry threw the ball away similarly with a needless behind the back pass in game 7 2016, almost exactly the same as Magic's game 4 (although with a bit more time left in the game). JR Smith utterly forgot what the score was at the end of Game 1 last year and did exactly the same thing as Magic in 1984 game 2. These examples are just from the past few years, there are countless others. I'll also point out those 2 examples are both from the NBA finals. If you just want examples of professional players throwing bad passes resulting in turnovers or dribbling too long resulting in time running out, the former happens about ~10 times in every single NBA game, the latter happens a couple of times per week during the regular season. You're talking about the highest pressure situation in the sport, players make mistakes. You are sorely underestimating the competitiveness of these athletes. I defy you to watch any interview Magic gave in the 80s and to this present day about the 84 finals, and still argue that he threw the series on purpose. His first NBA finals matchup with Larry Bird, who had been his rival for 5 years at that point, going back to their college careers? Either he's the the world's greatest actor, or that loss emotionally and mentally devastated him for a year until he got redemption in 85. You say the league needed the white fanbase's team to win, and it is absolutely true there was a huge racial component to the Lakers/Celtics rivalry in the 80s. How do you then explain the 85 and 87 finals? I consider myself pretty knowledgable about NBA history dating back to the NBA/ABA merger, and to be blunt your comments sound very uninformed.

by jds375 8y ago

drenvuk 8y ago

If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard.

privong 8y ago
> If you've watched any NBA in the past decade you can see a trend of calling fouls against teams that are winning too heavily against favorites. It's not hard. This should be fairly easy to test with play-by-play data[0]. I don't have time to do it just this moment, but I may give it a stab later. [0] https://eightthirtyfour.com/data https://eightthirtyfour.com/data
- UweSchmidt 8y ago
  I am sure such a study would be interesting to a wide audience.
  - privong 8y ago
    Thanks. If I manage to work through it, I'll put it online somewhere (and post the link to HN).

avn2109 8y ago

This isn't a ref throwing games for kickbacks, but it's surprising that nowhere in this thread has anyone mentioned the most blatant game-fixing in league history, which was the 1984 Lakers-Celtics finals. In this series, the league thought their predominantly-White fanbase needed to see Larry Bird (who is White) win the series. (Spoiler alert: Celtics won in 7). Some of the highlights (lowlights?) of Magic Johnson blatantly throwing the series (especially the first play in this video, sending game 1 into overtime) are here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc&t=91s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSlWNU5_JVc&t=91s The comments on the youtube are interesting, lots of people call it game fixing. Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance. Downthread there is also a reference to the infamous "Phoenix Suns Free Throw Parade" 1993 game 7 WCF (in which the Suns went 57 for 64 from the line, not a typo), which was also overtly thrown by the league for revenue reasons.

baumy 8y ago
Former competitive basketball player here, still play pickup regularly. "Nobody who has ever played even semicompetitive organized basketball could mistake this for an honest performance" is blatant hyperbole. I could not possibly disagree with you more re: 1984 Lakers/Celtics, and I'm a huge Lakers fan who'd love to believe they were really the better team. I'm not going to bother to click on the video, but I'm sure you're referring to Magic dribbling the clock out at the end of game 2, and throwing the ball away at the end of game 4? These are called mistakes, and they get made all the time. Steph Curry threw the ball away similarly with a needless behind the back pass in game 7 2016, almost exactly the same as Magic's game 4 (although with a bit more time left in the game). JR Smith utterly forgot what the score was at the end of Game 1 last year and did exactly the same thing as Magic in 1984 game 2. These examples are just from the past few years, there are countless others. I'll also point out those 2 examples are both from the NBA finals. If you just want examples of professional players throwing bad passes resulting in turnovers or dribbling too long resulting in time running out, the former happens about ~10 times in every single NBA game, the latter happens a couple of times per week during the regular season. You're talking about the highest pressure situation in the sport, players make mistakes. You are sorely underestimating the competitiveness of these athletes. I defy you to watch any interview Magic gave in the 80s and to this present day about the 84 finals, and still argue that he threw the series on purpose. His first NBA finals matchup with Larry Bird, who had been his rival for 5 years at that point, going back to their college careers? Either he's the the world's greatest actor, or that loss emotionally and mentally devastated him for a year until he got redemption in 85. You say the league needed the white fanbase's team to win, and it is absolutely true there was a huge racial component to the Lakers/Celtics rivalry in the 80s. How do you then explain the 85 and 87 finals? I consider myself pretty knowledgable about NBA history dating back to the NBA/ABA merger, and to be blunt your comments sound very uninformed.