12 ms·

While I won't be an early adopter for this, I think the concept is great. The things I'll be watching out for if this takes off: 1) How does the screen holdup

While I won't be an early adopter for this, I think the concept is great. The things I'll be watching out for if this takes off: 1) How does the screen holdup in daily use? Does the Infinity Flex Display get work out or glitchy at the hinge after 10,000 folds? 2) Will the device get thinner? This is currently the size of two phones stacked on top of each other. I can't imagine carrying that in my pocket long-term. 3) What's it like to actually use? Is it comfortable to hold when fully opened? Other than that, I could see this being pretty awesome, personally.

Niksko 8y ago
If IKEA can build a machine that repeatedly flexes their chairs until failure, I'm forced to believe that Samsung can build a machine that repeatedly flexes their screen. Surely that's not going to be the failure mode, it's more likely to be grit in the mechanism or fragility after dropping.
- TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
  You would have expected Apple to test its keyboard designs in the same way - we know how that turned out. Ironically - if that's the word - I think a larger laptop format device with a tactile folding hinged screen would be more interesting than this enormo-phone. This device will probably sell moderately in the nouveau Asian markets, but I doubt it's going to be a storming success, or the template for the next generation of devices.
  - jrs95 8y ago
    They probably did...in an artificial environment with dust and crumbs. Or they figured they were at an "acceptable" failure rate without considering how much more severe the cost to repair was. I think it's worth noting that the issue with their keyboard was only really known of after the keyboard was brought to the MacBook Pro. It didn't occur at a high enough rate on the 12" MacBook for it to be publicized.
    - abhorrence 8y ago
      I’ve been through four keyboard failures, and my experience has been that the keys over the parts of the computer that get hot are more likely to fail. I suspect it takes (or at least is more likely with) a combination of heat and contaminates, which might be less likely on the 12”.
  - dcplogic 8y ago
    I refuse to think that the Apple people designing the keyboard were so incompetent they didn't consider non-cleanroom usage.
  - NowThenGoodBad 8y ago
    Fun story for you on that: I applied numerous time for their Failure Analysis Engineer, Reliability Engineer, and other similar positions but repeatedly got rejected (or simply ignored by their ATS, I don’t play that keyword game very well). My professional career in Materials Science and Materials Engineering has had a large focus on reliability testing and failure analysis. In parallel with inventing new technologies or pioneering research projects I have had to rigorously test and verify the robustness of the products. To put it plainly: the position descriptions were me. I had a bit more experience and qualifications but not so much that I was “over qualified”. When I see some of the things that get through their engineers, I scratch my head and wonder what’s going on internally. Is there a lack of empowerment? Are those positions more or less for show and, while filled with legitimate engineers, not really leveraged as they should be? At any of the places I’ve worked stuff that Apple has let slip through would have never flown. The iPhone 5S compass/accelerometer issue (those of you who had it know, it was a bummer) and solving that by replacing the phone with another faulty one? The 2010-MacBook Pro discrete and integrated GPU switching failure? Right now I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary desktop and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange screen artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched or there’s adhesive in those regions while the rest of the screen is trying to pull away? Whatever it is has been there since I got it and I didn’t realize it wasn’t suppose to be that way until recently. I stopped applying to Apple because nothing was coming of it and the thought of working for a company that claims to be detail oriented but let’s that stuff slip through was enough to put me off. What’s inspiring though is that it gives their competitors and easy way to jump on the market. I’ve seen plenty new students choose Surface Books or Pro’s over Apple computers or tablets. There’s a point where companies forget to continue earning their success. I expect the foldable phone technologies have gone through considerable cyclic testing. That doesn’t mean that some manufactured ones won’t be flawed and that also doesn’t mean that people won’t be doing normal consumer things that cause failure sooner, but it’s likely these won’t be too bad.
    - sosborn 8y ago
      > I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary desktop and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange screen artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671
- ndnxhs 8y ago
  So they will be able to engineer it to fail exactly around the time the next Samsung phone comes out.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- maxxxxx 8y ago
  The real world is a pretty harsh and unpredictable place. I bet they will find out that users are doing things they never thought of.
- tlrobinson 8y ago
  I think the parent commenter's mention of "daily use" implies things like grit. Hopefully their flexing machine also showers the phone with pocket lint.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    and coins. My old v3 used to collect the odd coin while it was in my pocket. Never did it any harm. A screen might be less impressed.
- craftyguy 8y ago
  Expected chair lifespan > expected cell phone lifespan. (sadly)
bb88 8y ago
> Does the Infinity Flex Display get work out or glitchy at the hinge after 10,000 folds? Or does the hinge break if lands at just the right angle from 3 feet above?
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
esmi 8y ago
4) do the two screens wear uniformly? 5) what effect does putting a hinge in the center of the device have on the thermal capacity of the unit (thermal capacity is almost more important for performace than ram on a modern mobile computer architectures) 6) what are the long term ramifications of splitting the battery cell into two halves. It must be less capacity due to the extra packaging and safety overhead. I could go on. It’s certainly not clear to me that having a mode which trades XY for Z is a win. But it’s an interesting experiment. It will be entertaining to watch.
- mikeash 8y ago
  I don’t think dividing up the battery is a big problem. You’re right that there’s some additional overhead from more packaging, but it’s not horrible. Consider Tesla batteries, which consist of thousands of cells. They are heavier and bigger than they could be (and indeed, their newer ones use somewhat fewer, larger cells for this reason) but it’s ok. Phones are more weight sensitive than cars, but a two-piece battery is also not very extreme.
  - esmi 8y ago
    I don’t think I was totally clear. I agree if one takes a cell and cuts it in half then the overhead of managing the two cells isn’t hugely significant but I think what happened here is volume which could’ve been cell became hinge and that loss of capacity could prove to be an architectural disadvantage.
- Rebelgecko 8y ago
  There could be some benefits. I wouldn't be surprised if separating the battery in 2 actually helped with some of the thermal characteristics and reduced battery aging
  - esmi 8y ago
    It’s unlikely that it reduces aging. It’s probably worse but it is possible to have no impact depending on how they did it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775316309995 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037877531...
DKnoll 8y ago
It doesn't seem any thicker than the phones we had in our pockets in the early-mid 2000s. I personally would mind that compromise.
- SomeHacker44 8y ago
  "Would mind"?
  - DKnoll 8y ago
    Yep, a typo. Too late to edit it now.
- ksec 8y ago
  I remember carrying a Nokia 3310, which is ~20mm if I remember correctly. I kept thinking when could we get this to thinner. Later I had a Sony Ericsson Kxxx, I think it was Sub 15mm, it was still too thick. In ~2007 ish I had a Nokia 6xxx that was sub 12mm, then iPhone all the way to iPhone 6s, 6.x mm which was the thinnest iPhone before reverting now to 8.x mm on iPhone XS. All of them were still too think. I think iPad Pro 2018 got it about right. Somewhere between 5mm to 5.8mm would be perfect. But a 18mm foldable phone 5" Phone, I am not too sure. I would much prefer to have a thinner version of 6.8" iPhone.

Niksko 8y ago

If IKEA can build a machine that repeatedly flexes their chairs until failure, I'm forced to believe that Samsung can build a machine that repeatedly flexes their screen. Surely that's not going to be the failure mode, it's more likely to be grit in the mechanism or fragility after dropping.

TheOtherHobbes 8y ago
You would have expected Apple to test its keyboard designs in the same way - we know how that turned out. Ironically - if that's the word - I think a larger laptop format device with a tactile folding hinged screen would be more interesting than this enormo-phone. This device will probably sell moderately in the nouveau Asian markets, but I doubt it's going to be a storming success, or the template for the next generation of devices.
- jrs95 8y ago
  They probably did...in an artificial environment with dust and crumbs. Or they figured they were at an "acceptable" failure rate without considering how much more severe the cost to repair was. I think it's worth noting that the issue with their keyboard was only really known of after the keyboard was brought to the MacBook Pro. It didn't occur at a high enough rate on the 12" MacBook for it to be publicized.
  - abhorrence 8y ago
    I’ve been through four keyboard failures, and my experience has been that the keys over the parts of the computer that get hot are more likely to fail. I suspect it takes (or at least is more likely with) a combination of heat and contaminates, which might be less likely on the 12”.
- dcplogic 8y ago
  I refuse to think that the Apple people designing the keyboard were so incompetent they didn't consider non-cleanroom usage.
- NowThenGoodBad 8y ago
  Fun story for you on that: I applied numerous time for their Failure Analysis Engineer, Reliability Engineer, and other similar positions but repeatedly got rejected (or simply ignored by their ATS, I don’t play that keyword game very well). My professional career in Materials Science and Materials Engineering has had a large focus on reliability testing and failure analysis. In parallel with inventing new technologies or pioneering research projects I have had to rigorously test and verify the robustness of the products. To put it plainly: the position descriptions were me. I had a bit more experience and qualifications but not so much that I was “over qualified”. When I see some of the things that get through their engineers, I scratch my head and wonder what’s going on internally. Is there a lack of empowerment? Are those positions more or less for show and, while filled with legitimate engineers, not really leveraged as they should be? At any of the places I’ve worked stuff that Apple has let slip through would have never flown. The iPhone 5S compass/accelerometer issue (those of you who had it know, it was a bummer) and solving that by replacing the phone with another faulty one? The 2010-MacBook Pro discrete and integrated GPU switching failure? Right now I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary desktop and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange screen artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched or there’s adhesive in those regions while the rest of the screen is trying to pull away? Whatever it is has been there since I got it and I didn’t realize it wasn’t suppose to be that way until recently. I stopped applying to Apple because nothing was coming of it and the thought of working for a company that claims to be detail oriented but let’s that stuff slip through was enough to put me off. What’s inspiring though is that it gives their competitors and easy way to jump on the market. I’ve seen plenty new students choose Surface Books or Pro’s over Apple computers or tablets. There’s a point where companies forget to continue earning their success. I expect the foldable phone technologies have gone through considerable cyclic testing. That doesn’t mean that some manufactured ones won’t be flawed and that also doesn’t mean that people won’t be doing normal consumer things that cause failure sooner, but it’s likely these won’t be too bad.
  - sosborn 8y ago
    > I’m sitting in front of a 2017 MBP that has been used as a stationary desktop and babied with a keyboard cover and much TLC that has strange screen artifacts that seem to indicate that it was pinched https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT203671
ndnxhs 8y ago
So they will be able to engineer it to fail exactly around the time the next Samsung phone comes out.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
maxxxxx 8y ago
The real world is a pretty harsh and unpredictable place. I bet they will find out that users are doing things they never thought of.
tlrobinson 8y ago
I think the parent commenter's mention of "daily use" implies things like grit. Hopefully their flexing machine also showers the phone with pocket lint.
- NeedMoreTea 8y ago
  and coins. My old v3 used to collect the odd coin while it was in my pocket. Never did it any harm. A screen might be less impressed.
craftyguy 8y ago
Expected chair lifespan > expected cell phone lifespan. (sadly)

bb88 8y ago

> Does the Infinity Flex Display get work out or glitchy at the hinge after 10,000 folds? Or does the hinge break if lands at just the right angle from 3 feet above?

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

esmi 8y ago

4) do the two screens wear uniformly? 5) what effect does putting a hinge in the center of the device have on the thermal capacity of the unit (thermal capacity is almost more important for performace than ram on a modern mobile computer architectures) 6) what are the long term ramifications of splitting the battery cell into two halves. It must be less capacity due to the extra packaging and safety overhead. I could go on. It’s certainly not clear to me that having a mode which trades XY for Z is a win. But it’s an interesting experiment. It will be entertaining to watch.

mikeash 8y ago
I don’t think dividing up the battery is a big problem. You’re right that there’s some additional overhead from more packaging, but it’s not horrible. Consider Tesla batteries, which consist of thousands of cells. They are heavier and bigger than they could be (and indeed, their newer ones use somewhat fewer, larger cells for this reason) but it’s ok. Phones are more weight sensitive than cars, but a two-piece battery is also not very extreme.
- esmi 8y ago
  I don’t think I was totally clear. I agree if one takes a cell and cuts it in half then the overhead of managing the two cells isn’t hugely significant but I think what happened here is volume which could’ve been cell became hinge and that loss of capacity could prove to be an architectural disadvantage.
Rebelgecko 8y ago
There could be some benefits. I wouldn't be surprised if separating the battery in 2 actually helped with some of the thermal characteristics and reduced battery aging
- esmi 8y ago
  It’s unlikely that it reduces aging. It’s probably worse but it is possible to have no impact depending on how they did it. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0378775316309995 https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S037877531...

DKnoll 8y ago

It doesn't seem any thicker than the phones we had in our pockets in the early-mid 2000s. I personally would mind that compromise.

SomeHacker44 8y ago
"Would mind"?
- DKnoll 8y ago
  Yep, a typo. Too late to edit it now.
ksec 8y ago
I remember carrying a Nokia 3310, which is ~20mm if I remember correctly. I kept thinking when could we get this to thinner. Later I had a Sony Ericsson Kxxx, I think it was Sub 15mm, it was still too thick. In ~2007 ish I had a Nokia 6xxx that was sub 12mm, then iPhone all the way to iPhone 6s, 6.x mm which was the thinnest iPhone before reverting now to 8.x mm on iPhone XS. All of them were still too think. I think iPad Pro 2018 got it about right. Somewhere between 5mm to 5.8mm would be perfect. But a 18mm foldable phone 5" Phone, I am not too sure. I would much prefer to have a thinner version of 6.8" iPhone.