6 ms·

An $8,000 a month AWS bill is surprisingly high for this service.

pnathan 8y ago
I thought so as well. But, if he's okay with it and the numbers pencil out well, there's not a lot of reason to improve it: probably better ROIs elsewhere.
teacpde 8y ago
I didn't read thoroughly, but why does it need to run on AWS? Does the plugin send requests to a back end server and the server send the mass emails out? My naive thought is that some frontend JS (without the help of a backend server) would be able to accomplish some of the features.
- ddebernardy 8y ago
  Just spitballing, but he mentions working around gmail hanging for minutes when sending thousands of emails somewhere, so I presume he's storing the addresses on a server and looping through them in gmail in bite sized chunks.
eloff 8y ago
Yeah, I think you should be able to get that under a $1000 without trying too hard. But at $130K/month revenue, it's hardly a priority.
- Kiro 8y ago
  $1000? $5 should be enough.
  - mbrameld 8y ago
    How do you figure? What do you think a system like this entails?
jumbopapa 8y ago
I had the same thought and I'm curious how he was paying the AWS bill before making this a subscription service.
mbrameld 8y ago
The article says he's tracking when recipients open emails and click links. So for every email one of his users sends there's some potential network traffic and data to be stored. He was probably able to offer the service for free originally because those features weren't added until after the subscription service launched. His AWS bill before adding those features was probably a few hundred dollars per month at the most. He also mentioned he is financially secure from selling a previous spam tool he created, so he could afford to run it for free for a while.
- ajaygoel 8y ago
  Open/click tracking doesn't add much in terms of cost. That traffic is minor. The bulk of the traffic is the transmission of the emails.
  - jumbopapa 8y ago
    He makes it sound like that is all handled client side though, no? It uses the users own gmail account to send the emails.
    - ajaygoel 8y ago
      No it's not all client side. Just the interaction with the UI is client-side. All the heavy lifting is server-side.
      - SubuSS 8y ago
        I am sorry if this sounds dense: But if you are sending the emails from server side, how are you getting to the user credentials / gmail login 2 step verifications etc.? I am assuming you mean you send from the client UI but the extension talks to your server for scheduling the future sends etc. in which case you shouldn't have that much network bandwidth.
        ajaygoel 8y ago
ajaygoel 8y ago
Here's January's bill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt2qofjla2lnsg7/Screenshot%202019-02-20%2013.28.10.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt2qofjla2lnsg7/Screenshot%202019-...
- eloff 8y ago
  So roughly $1300 in bandwidth, possibly could cut some there by putting Cloudflare in front of static assets, but no idea how much of that is from static vs dynamic assets. Most of the compute cost ($2400) goes to an m4.xlarge and an m5.2xlarge. That could be reduced by using reserved instances - but there's other gotchas there if you're likely to change that anytime soon. Google cloud is much nicer in this regard with the auto discounts for continuous usage. The provisioned IO for EBS $2500 makes me sick, but may be necessary to get adequate performance. Honestly you could move everything onto two dedicated servers (one as a hot backup) and cut this down to $1000/month and get better performance. But that's the AWS tax. I use AWS all the time for work, but I would never build my own business on it.
  - sciurus 8y ago
    I agree with most of this. Some ways to save money are 1) Switch to the newest instance families 2) Save up the cash then reserve your instances. 3) Don't bother with the provisioned iops volume type, just use GP2 volumes large enough to give you the baseline IOPS you need 4) In general you have more block storage and snapshots than I'd expect, maybe that can be cut back?
  - cobookman 8y ago
    the benefit is outsourcing operations. If he used dedicated instances he'd need to manage his SQL server, disks, deal with hardware failures...etc. 7k$/month is cheaper than hiring an additional head.
    - penagwin 8y ago
      I'm not sure I agree, now I have no clue where he's from, but assuming he would save 7k a month that'd be 84k a year. Obviously there's other overhead/costs involved, but surely he could find somebody for 60k+ a year (I make less then that at my current development job but I'm from Michigan)?

I thought so as well. But, if he's okay with it and the numbers pencil out well, there's not a lot of reason to improve it: probably better ROIs elsewhere.

teacpde 8y ago

I didn't read thoroughly, but why does it need to run on AWS? Does the plugin send requests to a back end server and the server send the mass emails out? My naive thought is that some frontend JS (without the help of a backend server) would be able to accomplish some of the features.

ddebernardy 8y ago
Just spitballing, but he mentions working around gmail hanging for minutes when sending thousands of emails somewhere, so I presume he's storing the addresses on a server and looping through them in gmail in bite sized chunks.

eloff 8y ago

Yeah, I think you should be able to get that under a $1000 without trying too hard. But at $130K/month revenue, it's hardly a priority.

Kiro 8y ago
$1000? $5 should be enough.
- mbrameld 8y ago
  How do you figure? What do you think a system like this entails?

jumbopapa 8y ago

I had the same thought and I'm curious how he was paying the AWS bill before making this a subscription service.

mbrameld 8y ago

The article says he's tracking when recipients open emails and click links. So for every email one of his users sends there's some potential network traffic and data to be stored. He was probably able to offer the service for free originally because those features weren't added until after the subscription service launched. His AWS bill before adding those features was probably a few hundred dollars per month at the most. He also mentioned he is financially secure from selling a previous spam tool he created, so he could afford to run it for free for a while.

ajaygoel 8y ago
Open/click tracking doesn't add much in terms of cost. That traffic is minor. The bulk of the traffic is the transmission of the emails.
- jumbopapa 8y ago
  He makes it sound like that is all handled client side though, no? It uses the users own gmail account to send the emails.
  - ajaygoel 8y ago
    No it's not all client side. Just the interaction with the UI is client-side. All the heavy lifting is server-side.
    - SubuSS 8y ago
      I am sorry if this sounds dense: But if you are sending the emails from server side, how are you getting to the user credentials / gmail login 2 step verifications etc.? I am assuming you mean you send from the client UI but the extension talks to your server for scheduling the future sends etc. in which case you shouldn't have that much network bandwidth.
      - ajaygoel 8y ago

ajaygoel 8y ago

Here's January's bill: https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt2qofjla2lnsg7/Screenshot%202019-02-20%2013.28.10.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/wt2qofjla2lnsg7/Screenshot%202019-...

eloff 8y ago
So roughly $1300 in bandwidth, possibly could cut some there by putting Cloudflare in front of static assets, but no idea how much of that is from static vs dynamic assets. Most of the compute cost ($2400) goes to an m4.xlarge and an m5.2xlarge. That could be reduced by using reserved instances - but there's other gotchas there if you're likely to change that anytime soon. Google cloud is much nicer in this regard with the auto discounts for continuous usage. The provisioned IO for EBS $2500 makes me sick, but may be necessary to get adequate performance. Honestly you could move everything onto two dedicated servers (one as a hot backup) and cut this down to $1000/month and get better performance. But that's the AWS tax. I use AWS all the time for work, but I would never build my own business on it.
- sciurus 8y ago
  I agree with most of this. Some ways to save money are 1) Switch to the newest instance families 2) Save up the cash then reserve your instances. 3) Don't bother with the provisioned iops volume type, just use GP2 volumes large enough to give you the baseline IOPS you need 4) In general you have more block storage and snapshots than I'd expect, maybe that can be cut back?
- cobookman 8y ago
  the benefit is outsourcing operations. If he used dedicated instances he'd need to manage his SQL server, disks, deal with hardware failures...etc. 7k$/month is cheaper than hiring an additional head.
  - penagwin 8y ago
    I'm not sure I agree, now I have no clue where he's from, but assuming he would save 7k a month that'd be 84k a year. Obviously there's other overhead/costs involved, but surely he could find somebody for 60k+ a year (I make less then that at my current development job but I'm from Michigan)?