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I disagree, and almost take exactly the opposite stance. I think it is a great thing, there are many apps on these app stores which are useful that apple would

I disagree, and almost take exactly the opposite stance. I think it is a great thing, there are many apps on these app stores which are useful that apple would never allow. It is good to have alternative options. I look at the wording of the title of this Verge article (and a few others that come out lately) and see it as another example of media spreading fear through unnecessarily alarming titles. In reality, the risks are no different from manually installing an APK on Android, which noone has kicked up a fuss about.

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago
What apps do you consider useful and safe on that store?
- nathankunicki 8y ago
  I consider that argument irrelevant. I shouldn't have to justify the apps that I want to use to you or my phones manufacturer, just know that there are (or maybe) other apps that I wish to install, that Apple (or you) may not necessarily approve of. When I pay $1,000+ on a phone, I don't want its usefulness to be restricted to what Apple says I can do with it.
  - dkonofalski 8y ago
    >When I pay $1,000+ on a phone, I don't want its usefulness to be restricted to what Apple says I can do with it. Then don't buy an iPhone. It's not like you're paying that much money and then Apple is switching the phone out after you've paid. You're buying the device with the knowledge that it operates within Apple's walled garden before you ever take possession of it.
dkonofalski 8y ago
That's not true at all. You're giving a random developer with whom you have no pre-established relationship, and allowing them to install an enterprise-level certificate on your device. You're giving them the ability to do all kinds of things with your device, either intentionally or unintentionally, that you'd never have if you were side loading the app yourself. There's a reason that sideloading apps typically isn't a single-tap. In other words, there are no useful apps on these stores because you have no idea of really knowing what their use is. Considering that they're already coming from nefarious sources, there's no reason to believe they're not a trojan horse for something worse.
- nathankunicki 8y ago
  Again, these are all things that a sideloaded APK on Android could do, without requiring an enterprise certificate, and requiring fewer steps. I consider the phone to be firmly mine when I pay almost $1,000+ for it, and I want to be able to install whatever applications I want, not what Apple says I can have. You've applied the term "nefarious sources" to a third party app store, to which I disagree. Do you take the same approach with your laptop? Can you download an exe or app from third party websites without having to go through a manufacturer approval process? I
  - dkonofalski 8y ago
    Yes, this is all something you could do with a sideloaded APK. What I'm complaining about is the lax job that the Verge has done in explaining the implications of installing these certs and/or sideloading an APK. While it's not an insurmountable task, most people who sideload APKs on Android know the risks involved and need some level of proficiency in order to get to the end goal. I'm not opposed to people doing that but I am concerned that they might do that because they've been told they can get "free apps" or "apps that aren't on the App Store" without understanding any of the implications of what's happening when they go down that road. Your phone is yours. Absolutely. No question. In the age of big data, security breaches, and identity theft, though, we shouldn't expect or want to make technology so stupidly easy that people unwittingly give up their privacy and security simply because they didn't know any better. And I know the old adage about "inventing a better idiot" but that's not what I'm concerned about here. I'm concerned about responsible disclosure of the information here. The downside is a few more inconvenient steps for people who would legitimately need to sideload or use a certificate like this while the upside is the ability for a non-savvy user to trust the technology in their hands.

JohnJamesRambo 8y ago

What apps do you consider useful and safe on that store?

nathankunicki 8y ago
I consider that argument irrelevant. I shouldn't have to justify the apps that I want to use to you or my phones manufacturer, just know that there are (or maybe) other apps that I wish to install, that Apple (or you) may not necessarily approve of. When I pay $1,000+ on a phone, I don't want its usefulness to be restricted to what Apple says I can do with it.
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  >When I pay $1,000+ on a phone, I don't want its usefulness to be restricted to what Apple says I can do with it. Then don't buy an iPhone. It's not like you're paying that much money and then Apple is switching the phone out after you've paid. You're buying the device with the knowledge that it operates within Apple's walled garden before you ever take possession of it.

dkonofalski 8y ago

That's not true at all. You're giving a random developer with whom you have no pre-established relationship, and allowing them to install an enterprise-level certificate on your device. You're giving them the ability to do all kinds of things with your device, either intentionally or unintentionally, that you'd never have if you were side loading the app yourself. There's a reason that sideloading apps typically isn't a single-tap. In other words, there are no useful apps on these stores because you have no idea of really knowing what their use is. Considering that they're already coming from nefarious sources, there's no reason to believe they're not a trojan horse for something worse.

nathankunicki 8y ago
Again, these are all things that a sideloaded APK on Android could do, without requiring an enterprise certificate, and requiring fewer steps. I consider the phone to be firmly mine when I pay almost $1,000+ for it, and I want to be able to install whatever applications I want, not what Apple says I can have. You've applied the term "nefarious sources" to a third party app store, to which I disagree. Do you take the same approach with your laptop? Can you download an exe or app from third party websites without having to go through a manufacturer approval process? I
- dkonofalski 8y ago
  Yes, this is all something you could do with a sideloaded APK. What I'm complaining about is the lax job that the Verge has done in explaining the implications of installing these certs and/or sideloading an APK. While it's not an insurmountable task, most people who sideload APKs on Android know the risks involved and need some level of proficiency in order to get to the end goal. I'm not opposed to people doing that but I am concerned that they might do that because they've been told they can get "free apps" or "apps that aren't on the App Store" without understanding any of the implications of what's happening when they go down that road. Your phone is yours. Absolutely. No question. In the age of big data, security breaches, and identity theft, though, we shouldn't expect or want to make technology so stupidly easy that people unwittingly give up their privacy and security simply because they didn't know any better. And I know the old adage about "inventing a better idiot" but that's not what I'm concerned about here. I'm concerned about responsible disclosure of the information here. The downside is a few more inconvenient steps for people who would legitimately need to sideload or use a certificate like this while the upside is the ability for a non-savvy user to trust the technology in their hands.