6 ms·

I’ve made the same basic comment before, but we need to ban the residential use of herbicides and pesticides. I spoke to a beekeeper who had two hives wiped ou

by gmoes 8y ago

I’ve made the same basic comment before, but we need to ban the residential use of herbicides and pesticides. I spoke to a beekeeper who had two hives wiped out by Mosquito Squad spraying on an adjacent property. I recently came across a 1997 paper called: "Producing and Consuming Chemicals: The Moral Economy of the American Lawn". They cite a higher per hectare usage for residential over agriculture. We need to get rid of our lawns they are literally destroying the planet and they are greenhouse gas emitters when you factor in gas powered mowers and leaf blowers. Fertilizer emits nitrogen oxides that are potent greenhouse gases. The paper is interesting as it talks about how lawns are marketed. Unfortunately lawns are a multibillion dollar industry. If we are going to fight climate change and environmental degradation, we need to seriously rethink letting business needs take priority over the environment and not just for lawns. We need to allow people to have native plant yards. I've seen great results with insects. Unfortunately it's illegal where I live and probably most non-rural places. In order to allow this would mean changing state and local ordinances across the US. I honestly don’t think that will happen until it’s too late. By then lawns will be the last thing we will care about.

tootie 8y ago
Lawns are the dumbest thing Americans obsess over. I've lived in apartments my whole adult life but if I had a lawn I'd be inclined to just let it go wild. Or maybe plant moss or something.
- jbigelow76 8y ago
  And then your neighborhood association would fine you or try to make your life a living hell until you fell into line and mowed it like a good boy. For people that love to obsess over their own lawns they REALLY love to obsess over their neighbor's lawns.
- AlexandrB 8y ago
  Unfortunately, just like with municipal support of car culture, lawns and their upkeep are often written into municipal bylaws. That's not even getting into HOAs and how restrictive their lawn policies can be - often having requirements down to which species of grass[1] you're allowed to use. Finally there's communal pressure from neighbours, who will give you the stink eye if the weeds from your wild lawn even might encroach onto their manicured grass. [1] https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/hoa-and-my-lawn/ https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlordin...
  - goda90 8y ago
    I just bought my first home last spring. No HOA, but I did get the city called on me for being close to the 8 inch limit on grass. We also heard on the grape vine that one neighbor blamed our longer grass for the mosquitoes keeping them from enjoying the outdoors, instead of, you know, the record rainfall and nearby drainage ditch. Luckily my city's ordinances have a provision for a "natural lawn" made up of native grasses and plants that can be extra tall. I intend to turn my front yard into one to reduce how much mowing I need to do.
    - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
      > for being close to the 8 inch limit on grass. What the hell? I assume simply concreting over it for more parking space would be fine though. Most UK streets will have a property or two where the garden does whatever it is that gardens do when completely ignored for a decade. Or with meadow or wildlife friendly planting, maybe intentionally including weeds. I love this. All over HN American folks talk now and then about how govt should keep out of things, and how that works so much better than in that terrible interfering socialist place, Europe. You regulate your front lawns and grass height. There's probably an ANSI standard for them. Sorry. ;)
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  You'd better make sure you move into a neighborhood that already has wild lawns in it, otherwise you'll be in for some headaches from busy body neighbors.
  - wil421 8y ago
    Or just choose an neighborhood without an HOA.
- forkandwait 8y ago
  In my hippy puget sound part of the world, we just mow to keep the grass short but otherwise let it do whatever, usually turn brown and be filled with moss and clover. We started to aerate because that helps runoff.
  - munificent 8y ago
    That works fine in the Pacific Northwest. In the South, after six months, your entire yard will be an impassable jungle filled with mosquitos, cockroaches, rats, etc. It's much easier to tame a yard in a climate that's cold half the year and dark 3/4 of it.
    - dTal 8y ago
      So, a thriving insect ecosystem? Isn't that... the point?
    - forkandwait 8y ago
      What if you mow it short regularly? We would have the same mess if we didn't mow. Things grow like crazy for six months here
      - munificent 8y ago
        In Seattle, I mow the lawn every two weeks for about six months of the year. When I lived in Florida, if I didn't mow at least once a week, almost all year, I would very quickly get a lawn too thick for my lawnmower to get through. The Gulf Coast is always waiting for a moment's inattention to revert back to the jungle that it desperately wants to be.
    - moosey 8y ago
      I live in the Inland Northwest, and I assure you what you mention is true. We have a forest, but generally the ground is brown and dry in summer, and the winters are long and hard. The Cascades are huge, and create an extensive rain shadow. Seattle sits right next to the only temperate rainforest in the world, though. The sheer amount of plant life there is something to behold, and it doesn't get cold there all that long.
decebalus1 8y ago
> I’ve made the same basic comment before, but we need to ban the residential use of herbicides and pesticides. This reminds me of a thread in my local suburban community's Facebook group. Someone was complaining about his dog repeatedly eating some small mushrooms growing in the backyard of his newly bought home and getting sick. The backyard was wildish, had flowers and some patches of tall grass, rocks etc... It actually looked pretty good. The whole thread was about herbicide recommendations. He ended up killing most of his vegetation and finally decided on 'installing' a lawn. A sterile all-American golfcourse-like green. All so that his dog can no longer eat mushrooms. Fucking idiots.
circlefavshape 8y ago
> We need to allow people to have native plant yards. I've seen great results with insects. Unfortunately it's illegal where I live Illegal!? Seriously??
- Analemma_ 8y ago
  I don’t know of any places where native lawns are actually against the law, but the parent might mean “against the terms of the HOA”, which is effectively the same thing since HOAs can levy fines and in some cases evict you if you don’t follow the rules. Most HOAs have strict policies stating that you must have the kind of perfect all-American lawn that is at issue here... just one more reason why they should all be destroyed.
  - gbrown 8y ago
    There are definitely city ordinances which would prohibit it, but there are often workarounds and loopholes involving landscaping (like adding a retaining wall along the sidewalk, or maintaining a small strip of grass adjascent to city property).
gotocake 8y ago
My mother has a wild lawn, dominated by ferns, moss, wildflowers and other nifty things. This replaced the previous owner’s typically sterile American lawn. When she first moved in a few decades ago there wasn’t much in the way of wildlife. Now she has deer wandering around, rabbits, turkeys, frogs, snakes, hawks, and more bees than you can shake a stick at. I really believe that one relatively simple and cosmetic personal choices we make can have a huge impact on our local environment, and by extension the broader one.
- ptaipale 8y ago
  Deer and hawks may visit a place because it now is different, but anything people normally call "lawn" is irrelevant in size as the habitat of wild mammals or large birds. I hardly think the impact is "huge" for the environment, though it may be very nice for the person observing nature from his home (yes, I see deer and rabbits very regularly, even if I have just a lawn, but there's some actual forest starting next to my plot. Neighbourhood got scared because someone spotted a wolf.)
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
gbrown 8y ago
I'd support this, though I do consider myself a responsible herbicide user. I use only spot application of glyphosate (on dry, sunny days) to help tackle invasive species, or to prepare lawn for conversion to native prairie instead. Where I see the big problem is the standard practice of treating entire lawns with fertilizer and pesticide mixes. It's such a strange practice to me.
guelo 8y ago
This seems bogus to me. There are many more acres of agricultural land vs lawns. Without looking it up I would guess agricultural land accounts for over 90% of the herbicide and pesticide use. We are not going to save the environment by having tiny patches of chemical-free land while huge swaths outside the cities are being doused.
- EthanHeilman 8y ago
  >"Homes, golf courses and parks may grow more acres of turf grass than U.S. farmers devote to corn, wheat and fruit trees — combined [..] 2005, researchers estimated there are 40 million acres of turf grass in the U.S., covering 1.9 percent of the land." - https://scienceline.org/2011/07/lawns-vs-crops-in-the-continental-u-s/ https://scienceline.org/2011/07/lawns-vs-crops-in-the-contin... >357,023,500 acres of cropland in the United States. - https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/landuse/crops/ https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/land... 40 million acres for lawns in the US (2005), 357 million acres of land for crops (2007). However it is very surprising that we use significantly more land for lawns than for corn.
  - vkou 8y ago
    Corn is only one crop, and it has incredibly high caloric yields per acre (Much higher then grains, greens, vegetables). It is second only to potatoes in calories/acre.
- donaldknuth123 8y ago
  >They cite a higher per hectare usage for residential over agriculture Helps to read the comment.

by gmoes 8y ago

tootie 8y ago

Lawns are the dumbest thing Americans obsess over. I've lived in apartments my whole adult life but if I had a lawn I'd be inclined to just let it go wild. Or maybe plant moss or something.

jbigelow76 8y ago
And then your neighborhood association would fine you or try to make your life a living hell until you fell into line and mowed it like a good boy. For people that love to obsess over their own lawns they REALLY love to obsess over their neighbor's lawns.
AlexandrB 8y ago
Unfortunately, just like with municipal support of car culture, lawns and their upkeep are often written into municipal bylaws. That's not even getting into HOAs and how restrictive their lawn policies can be - often having requirements down to which species of grass[1] you're allowed to use. Finally there's communal pressure from neighbours, who will give you the stink eye if the weeds from your wild lawn even might encroach onto their manicured grass. [1] https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlording/hoa-and-my-lawn/ https://forum.mrmoneymustache.com/real-estate-and-landlordin...
- goda90 8y ago
  I just bought my first home last spring. No HOA, but I did get the city called on me for being close to the 8 inch limit on grass. We also heard on the grape vine that one neighbor blamed our longer grass for the mosquitoes keeping them from enjoying the outdoors, instead of, you know, the record rainfall and nearby drainage ditch. Luckily my city's ordinances have a provision for a "natural lawn" made up of native grasses and plants that can be extra tall. I intend to turn my front yard into one to reduce how much mowing I need to do.
  - NeedMoreTea 8y ago
    > for being close to the 8 inch limit on grass. What the hell? I assume simply concreting over it for more parking space would be fine though. Most UK streets will have a property or two where the garden does whatever it is that gardens do when completely ignored for a decade. Or with meadow or wildlife friendly planting, maybe intentionally including weeds. I love this. All over HN American folks talk now and then about how govt should keep out of things, and how that works so much better than in that terrible interfering socialist place, Europe. You regulate your front lawns and grass height. There's probably an ANSI standard for them. Sorry. ;)
bilbo0s 8y ago
You'd better make sure you move into a neighborhood that already has wild lawns in it, otherwise you'll be in for some headaches from busy body neighbors.
- wil421 8y ago
  Or just choose an neighborhood without an HOA.
forkandwait 8y ago
In my hippy puget sound part of the world, we just mow to keep the grass short but otherwise let it do whatever, usually turn brown and be filled with moss and clover. We started to aerate because that helps runoff.
- munificent 8y ago
  That works fine in the Pacific Northwest. In the South, after six months, your entire yard will be an impassable jungle filled with mosquitos, cockroaches, rats, etc. It's much easier to tame a yard in a climate that's cold half the year and dark 3/4 of it.
  - dTal 8y ago
    So, a thriving insect ecosystem? Isn't that... the point?
  - forkandwait 8y ago
    What if you mow it short regularly? We would have the same mess if we didn't mow. Things grow like crazy for six months here
    - munificent 8y ago
      In Seattle, I mow the lawn every two weeks for about six months of the year. When I lived in Florida, if I didn't mow at least once a week, almost all year, I would very quickly get a lawn too thick for my lawnmower to get through. The Gulf Coast is always waiting for a moment's inattention to revert back to the jungle that it desperately wants to be.
  - moosey 8y ago
    I live in the Inland Northwest, and I assure you what you mention is true. We have a forest, but generally the ground is brown and dry in summer, and the winters are long and hard. The Cascades are huge, and create an extensive rain shadow. Seattle sits right next to the only temperate rainforest in the world, though. The sheer amount of plant life there is something to behold, and it doesn't get cold there all that long.

decebalus1 8y ago

> I’ve made the same basic comment before, but we need to ban the residential use of herbicides and pesticides. This reminds me of a thread in my local suburban community's Facebook group. Someone was complaining about his dog repeatedly eating some small mushrooms growing in the backyard of his newly bought home and getting sick. The backyard was wildish, had flowers and some patches of tall grass, rocks etc... It actually looked pretty good. The whole thread was about herbicide recommendations. He ended up killing most of his vegetation and finally decided on 'installing' a lawn. A sterile all-American golfcourse-like green. All so that his dog can no longer eat mushrooms. Fucking idiots.

circlefavshape 8y ago

> We need to allow people to have native plant yards. I've seen great results with insects. Unfortunately it's illegal where I live Illegal!? Seriously??

Analemma_ 8y ago
I don’t know of any places where native lawns are actually against the law, but the parent might mean “against the terms of the HOA”, which is effectively the same thing since HOAs can levy fines and in some cases evict you if you don’t follow the rules. Most HOAs have strict policies stating that you must have the kind of perfect all-American lawn that is at issue here... just one more reason why they should all be destroyed.
- gbrown 8y ago
  There are definitely city ordinances which would prohibit it, but there are often workarounds and loopholes involving landscaping (like adding a retaining wall along the sidewalk, or maintaining a small strip of grass adjascent to city property).

gotocake 8y ago

My mother has a wild lawn, dominated by ferns, moss, wildflowers and other nifty things. This replaced the previous owner’s typically sterile American lawn. When she first moved in a few decades ago there wasn’t much in the way of wildlife. Now she has deer wandering around, rabbits, turkeys, frogs, snakes, hawks, and more bees than you can shake a stick at. I really believe that one relatively simple and cosmetic personal choices we make can have a huge impact on our local environment, and by extension the broader one.

ptaipale 8y ago
Deer and hawks may visit a place because it now is different, but anything people normally call "lawn" is irrelevant in size as the habitat of wild mammals or large birds. I hardly think the impact is "huge" for the environment, though it may be very nice for the person observing nature from his home (yes, I see deer and rabbits very regularly, even if I have just a lawn, but there's some actual forest starting next to my plot. Neighbourhood got scared because someone spotted a wolf.)
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]

gbrown 8y ago

I'd support this, though I do consider myself a responsible herbicide user. I use only spot application of glyphosate (on dry, sunny days) to help tackle invasive species, or to prepare lawn for conversion to native prairie instead. Where I see the big problem is the standard practice of treating entire lawns with fertilizer and pesticide mixes. It's such a strange practice to me.

guelo 8y ago

This seems bogus to me. There are many more acres of agricultural land vs lawns. Without looking it up I would guess agricultural land accounts for over 90% of the herbicide and pesticide use. We are not going to save the environment by having tiny patches of chemical-free land while huge swaths outside the cities are being doused.

EthanHeilman 8y ago
>"Homes, golf courses and parks may grow more acres of turf grass than U.S. farmers devote to corn, wheat and fruit trees — combined [..] 2005, researchers estimated there are 40 million acres of turf grass in the U.S., covering 1.9 percent of the land." - https://scienceline.org/2011/07/lawns-vs-crops-in-the-continental-u-s/ https://scienceline.org/2011/07/lawns-vs-crops-in-the-contin... >357,023,500 acres of cropland in the United States. - https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/landuse/crops/ https://www.nrcs.usda.gov/wps/portal/nrcs/main/national/land... 40 million acres for lawns in the US (2005), 357 million acres of land for crops (2007). However it is very surprising that we use significantly more land for lawns than for corn.
- vkou 8y ago
  Corn is only one crop, and it has incredibly high caloric yields per acre (Much higher then grains, greens, vegetables). It is second only to potatoes in calories/acre.
donaldknuth123 8y ago
>They cite a higher per hectare usage for residential over agriculture Helps to read the comment.