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People who own businesses should not act like assholes

• caractacus 8y ago
  It's a beautiful story where one asshole meets another.
  • eyeinthepyramid 8y ago
    It's incredible the author was so proud of being an asshole that he wrote a blog post about it.
    • rosege 8y ago
      To be fair I've probably had the odd time I've been like that too!
• hn_throwaway_99 8y ago
  To be honest, it was the author who I felt like, while perhaps not an asshole, showed a pretty intense level of oblivious immaturity. I get it, the other guy was a jerk, especially to someone who was maintaining an add-on for free. But at the point where the author responded with the "Sorry, I don't agree with that," he should have left it at that and moved on. Who cares what some rando on the internet thinks about your product? Instead the author decided to go into vindictive mode and leave the negative review, and then leave this whole blog post, which does the author no favors. To be honest, to me the cringiest part of this article is it feels like the author is trying to project how virtuous he is, when, at least for me, it had the opposite effect.
  • quickthrower2 8y ago
    Totally my thoughts. Plus I thought the email asking him to take down the reviews was fair and respectfully written. And leaving reviews for businesses you’ve not been a customer of is in bad faith.
    • aequitas 8y ago
      For me the author can be considered a supplier instead of a customer. Maybe they don't have a legal contract stating the business relationship. But the business owner is using both the software and support of the author. That it is free shouldn't make a difference here.
      • DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
        Not really; the user was clearly using the addon privately, not for his busyness, so he wasn't really supplying the busyness itself.
    • Topgamer7 8y ago
      I think the review demonstrates the management of the company. People don't agree with Zuckerbergs decisions, they can choose not to use his product. You don't like the decisions/actions of management of a company, you choose not to use the company. You act like a dick bag, and get a bad review. It shows you don't know how to conduct your self maturely. Not someone I would want to go into business with.
    • DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
      To be fair, he made clear in the review that it was about something personal, and everything he said might be of interest to potential customers depending on the type of busyness. And while that particular email was somewhat more respectful than the others, they didn't even spell the guys name right, and they should have apologized nonetheless. Childish? Yes. Undeserved? Certainly not.
  • HelloNurse 8y ago
    Randomly punishing "some rando on the internet" in public can be both a fun, albeit nonconstructive, recreational activity and a way to keep them in line by educating the rest. If this blog post makes even one jerk change attitude towards open-source software (or about dealing with people in general) coming out as vindictive and hypocritical was an acceptable price to pay.
    • Retra 8y ago
      Trading one jerk for another doesn't accomplish much unless you know one of them personally.
  • mizzao 8y ago
    Just one troll feeding another troll.
  • hectorhector 8y ago
    And honestly, the user's suggestion wasn't bad.
    • jik 8y ago
      The user's suggestion wouldn't actually solve the problem the user wanted solved. If there are scheduled messages queued to be sent when Thunderbird starts up, then Send Later sends them immediately, before the user has a chance to click any "Stop" button. The only way to prevent that is to delete the message when you no longer want it sent, which is what I explained to the user. There's also a preference the user could have enabled in the Send Later preferences to tell it not to send messages that are past due by more than x minutes when Thunderbird starts up. So there are actually _two_ different ways already in the extension for solving the problem the user wanted solved. It's FOSS, I don't have unlimited time to work on it, there are a lot of other more important features I'd be working on if I had time rather than adding a third solution to a problem for which there are already two other solutions.
  • smileysteve 8y ago
    I agree! Author is the asshole. Could have kept his response as was (make the changes yourself) or not made any response at all. The author approached a doxxing vs harassment discrepancy, doxxing seems much more uncivilized. Further, I think the author should consider the features of his software and the people it attracts. Frankly the author could have ended the conversation earlier when the complainant specified that his use of the software was to harass.
  • kichik 8y ago
    Totally agree. And the clearest sign of that is that the author is the one who cursed first.
• puranjay 8y ago
  I mean no one really comes out looking good in this story. You don't trump an asshole by out-assholing him
  • everdev 8y ago
    Yep, it takes two to keep the drama going. If you want to fight, argue. If you want to end a fight, empathize. People tend to think there's right/wrong in a fight when it's almost always emotional and can't be proven or justified with logic.
• i_dont_know_ 8y ago
  I've worked on FOSS before and got a handful of messages from people like this. They're very very few and far between, but I always found them fascinating because of how much it broke their worldviews. They're usually people who control enough money that they can 'throw money at a problem' and it'll largely diminish or go away. They usually find a desperate enough vendor, employee, or subcontractor who will deal with their attitudes for enough cash, or quickly fire them if they can't. They usually have the inverse attitude towards customers giving them money -- that is, they believe it's also part of their job to take abuse from those willing to buy. So, most of their business transactions involve them giving or taking abuse with the threat of financial withdrawal if the abuse isn't accepted. It's how they define transactions. "Who's the abuser, who's the abusee?" The answer depends, strictly, on which way the money is flowing. FOSS breaks their worldview because they're not the customer in the same way. They don't have that leverage. They're just an angry person on the street asking you to help them carry their groceries in, and at some point, if they realize it, it's priceless.
  • normalfaults 8y ago
    What you are describing is to some level the essence of consulting/contracting or at least folks that are in that industry. This type of abuser/abusee relationship in business is prevalent all over the place especially to defer blame when things go south (paying for someone to essentially take the blame) and also defer decision making . thanks for the food for thought.
• chimen 8y ago
  Only few people can act like Linus and get away with it (and for a good reason). HN is the worst place to brag about stuff like this. I'm a person with limited patience and it's toxic for my business for me to deal with clients that's why only my partner deals with it while I stay on the technical part. It's worked wonders. It's no shame in admitting you're not the guy to do it all.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• vinceguidry 8y ago
  The Internet over the years has taught me the fine art of non-engagement. Just... stop. The instant it starts going down a bad road, stop. Don't send another message, or send a blithely positive one just to blunt the energy and move on. Seems so simple, but I think the need for closure is what keeps many from being able to do this. But it's dangerous. The Internet is dangerous. All it takes is for one person, it doesn't even have to be a party to the interaction, to ruin your day if not your life. Legal threats? Please. This guy might SWAT you.
  • Topgamer7 8y ago
    I agree. Don't poke the internet bear. You might not fully understand the level of crazy on the other end of the router.
    • jik 8y ago
      I've been poking the internet bear for over 30 years. That's quite obvious if you read the other articles on my blog. I'm not one to back down from a fight when I think someone is in the wrong. And yes, sometimes I've paid for that, such as when a Usenet kook tried to get me fired from my job for having the temerity to disagree with him. But overall I'd rather be the guy who stood up for what I believed was right than the guy who didn't. As always, YMMV.
      • vinceguidry 8y ago
        30 years ago, I'd have been right there with you. Nowadays? Oh hell no. The threat landscape has changed.
• jik 8y ago
  Wow, out of all the things I've written on my blog, _this_ makes it onto the front page of HN. How droll. BTW, just to be clear, I wasn't the one who posted the link here. I don't think it's particular relevant to what HN is for, but shrug apparently somebody did. This is all I'm going to have to say about the attacks on my character here... When some stranger on the internet acts like a dick toward me in private emails, I call it out -- in private emails. When I decide that someone has acted sufficiently like a dick toward me in private emails, I put them in my burn-before-read file, and I tell them so, because I don't believe in ghosting people. That's usually the end of it. When someone, having been told that they are now in my burn-before-read file, decides they're going to go out of their way to email me from a different email address and harass me some more, then that's just what it is -- harassment. If they'll do it to me, they'll do it to other people, and I believe that calling out harassers publicly is, in fact, the right thing to do. That's why I posted the reviews. I disagree with the claim made below that it was "bad faith" to do so, because having interacted with the business owner, I was in fact in a position to know his character and how he treats people, and that is certainly an appropriate thing to tell people about who might be considering whether to patronize a business. The last letter I got from them, asking me take down the reviews, was not "fair." It was an attempt to intimidate me into taking down my reviews. It was, in fact, a classic example of an attempt at such intimidation. If you don't recognize it as such, try reading @Popehat a bit. It is perfectly appropriate to respond with public shaming to someone trying to intimidate you into taking down content you posted about them that they don't like (again, see @Popehat). Ever heard of the Streisand effect? Finally, as I believe I made quite clear in the blog posting, I would have taken down all of the reviews and the blog posting itself in a second if they had simply apologized. I still would, if they apologized today. There's no expiration date on that offer.
  • CptFribble 8y ago
    I'm sorry to say, but things went off the rails before he used the second email address. In the email with the GitHub link, the final two paragraphs were an unnecessary provocation, especially the profanity in the first and personal insult in the second. Everything after that was mean-spirited and unnecessary, including your response to the second email address and the reviews. I got into a lot of verbal fights on the internet over the years before I learned that typing at people only makes it worse. State your case plainly, without name calling, and leave it. If they keep going then 99% of the time they're trolling, and 1% they have no self control. If you really feel the urge to "give it to them," maybe stop and think about why you feel that way. Nothing good ever comes from trying to hurt someone else to make a point, especially if that point is to make yourself feel better. The best response is always kindness. If that doesn't work, then walk away. Escalating solves nothing.
• DarkWiiPlayer 8y ago
  I honestly don't understand how they could have spelled that street name wrong.
  • jik 8y ago
    I mean, she spelled my name wrong to. She spelled her own email address differently in two places. Attention to detail does not appear to be this person's strong suit.
• ww520 8y ago
  Can feel for the author. I have several open source projects and some users are very entitled and demanding. Some guy sent me an email demanding something and when I didn't respond fast enough (was sleeping during the night), gave me an 1-star rating couple hours later. Some would add, "1-star rating unless such and such features are added." Yeah right, like I give a shit about rating, especially on an open source project I publish out of my generosity.
• deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
• johnmarcus 8y ago
  "You're not wrong Walter, you're just an asshole." - The Dude. I often want to vent about shite like this, so I feel for you. It sucks to get treated like dirt and just have to swallow it, else risk a bad-internet-wrap for (rightfully or wrongfully) putting someone in their place. But outside of an anonymous post, which is not nearly was cathartic, it's better to keep ones mouth shut in an ever so politically correct environment, dollar wise speaking anyways. People speak about how wrong bullying is, but then frown upon punching back. Unfortunately, a good counter punch is often the quickest resolution. Good for you for standing up for yourself. I personally would hire you for being someone that tells it how it is, but most corporate HR teams may frown upon it, expecting you to be "trouble".