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You provide absolutely no evidence of this theory being widely discredited. The reality is it seems to be very difficult to test empirically. The most comprehen

You provide absolutely no evidence of this theory being widely discredited. The reality is it seems to be very difficult to test empirically. The most comprehensive survey I have found to date is here: http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/1997/Koopmans.html http://www.goertzel.org/dynapsyc/1997/Koopmans.html "I mean, if this theory was true, you would expect to find schizophrenic families--after all, they all had the same mother." First of all, maladaptive social behavior of the kind that is labeled as "schizophrenia" (or other so-called mental illnesses e.g. "bipolar", "depression") does tend to cluster in families. This is why doctors screen for things like "family history of depression." Secondly, there are major differences in siblings' roles and how they are treated, despite having the same mother. The birth order concept is the most obvious version of this. There is another concept of the "identified patient" which explains how in some cases one family member plays the role of the "sick one" as a way to maintain stability of the family unit as a whole. "It also doesn't line up with the timing of onset at all." I don't see how this theory conflicts with whatever timing of onset you are referring to. Perhaps you can clarify or provide citations for what appears to be a very strongly held opinion.

ericb 8y ago
> does tend to cluster in families. Yes but not necessarily at the sibling level, which is what you'd expect if this was a problem caused by bad mothers. Also, you would predict that siblings should be highly correlated regardless of their genes if it was "mothering" but instead what you find is this (from the study you cited): Monozygotic Twins 44.3 Offspring two schizophrenic parents 36.6 Dizygotic Twins 12.1 Siblings 7.3 Offspring one schizophrenic parent 9.4 Half-siblings 2.9 So a half-sibling raised with the same parenting is barely correlated on schizophrenia, but a twin has a 44 percent correlation. That puts the schizophrenogenic mother theory 100% off the reservation in my book. Reasoning past that damning fact is just wishful thinking. > I don't see how this theory conflicts with whatever The average age of onset is 18 in men and 25 in women. If this disordered thinking style is created in say 6 year olds, it seems odd that it takes 12-20 years to cause a problem. Anyhow theories are a dime a dozen, and the burden of proof is on those proposing the theory to prove it, and that has failed rather spectacularly in this case. https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-15877-8_482-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/ghost-schizophrenogenic-mother/2013-09 https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/ghost-schizophr... https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-15877-8_482-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... Separated twins show high concordance for schizophrenia (why would this be if it is due to parenting?) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2285075 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2285075 Another study: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1403494810396560 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/140349481039656... The important bit: It was concluded that genetic factors are important in the transmission of schizophrenia, whereas there was no evidence for environmental influences in the rearing family.

ericb 8y ago

> does tend to cluster in families. Yes but not necessarily at the sibling level, which is what you'd expect if this was a problem caused by bad mothers. Also, you would predict that siblings should be highly correlated regardless of their genes if it was "mothering" but instead what you find is this (from the study you cited): Monozygotic Twins 44.3 Offspring two schizophrenic parents 36.6 Dizygotic Twins 12.1 Siblings 7.3 Offspring one schizophrenic parent 9.4 Half-siblings 2.9 So a half-sibling raised with the same parenting is barely correlated on schizophrenia, but a twin has a 44 percent correlation. That puts the schizophrenogenic mother theory 100% off the reservation in my book. Reasoning past that damning fact is just wishful thinking. > I don't see how this theory conflicts with whatever The average age of onset is 18 in men and 25 in women. If this disordered thinking style is created in say 6 year olds, it seems odd that it takes 12-20 years to cause a problem. Anyhow theories are a dime a dozen, and the burden of proof is on those proposing the theory to prove it, and that has failed rather spectacularly in this case. https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-15877-8_482-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/ghost-schizophrenogenic-mother/2013-09 https://journalofethics.ama-assn.org/article/ghost-schizophr... https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3-319-15877-8_482-1 https://link.springer.com/referenceworkentry/10.1007%2F978-3... Separated twins show high concordance for schizophrenia (why would this be if it is due to parenting?) https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2285075 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2285075 Another study: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1403494810396560 https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/140349481039656... The important bit: It was concluded that genetic factors are important in the transmission of schizophrenia, whereas there was no evidence for environmental influences in the rearing family.