5 ms·

This kind of retribution is pretty normal from the companies I've worked it, it's clumsy that it ended up in writing here and a bit more vicious than usual with

This kind of retribution is pretty normal from the companies I've worked it, it's clumsy that it ended up in writing here and a bit more vicious than usual with a child involved. Normally it's done offline in private conversations or simply as something that's understood between like minded managers with passing comments. One manager I had was pretty candid about it, he said he couldn't find another job and was looking to retire so he was going to give me a bad performance review despite actually being the top performer so he wouldn't be affected. He was otherwise very apologetic that his hand was forced.

RHSeeger 8y ago
That seems like something you bring up with him to discuss if there's a way to avoid it; and then tape the whole discussion.
- org3432 8y ago
  This is just how many managers are, the best approach is to just recognize them and avoid them as best you can.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
    It could be argued the best thing to do is gang up on them, record and post your conversations with them, and tirelessly work to undermine them. Otherwise we're all complicit in allowing bad actors to get away with their behaviour.
    - Circumnavigate 8y ago
      In California you are not legally allowed to audio record someone in private without their consent. They must know that they are being recorded for it to be used as evidence in court.
      - stale2002 8y ago
        The point isn't to take things to court. The point is to take things public. The court of public opinion is a hugely effective weapon, if you have the documented evidence to back it up. And if they threaten you about wiretapping laws or whatever, well that just makes the company look even worse in the court of public opinion. If you will notice, nobody at Uber was stupid enough to threaten Susan Fowler for documenting the stuff that happened to her.
      - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
        This reminded me of a comment I read some years ago. Here it is: You seem obsessed with laws, as if they possess value and worth in and of themselves, when really they are a very high latency sidechannel of society and power. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 It's probably a bit too sharp a response to your comment, but it certainly get's the point across.
jcrites 8y ago
> One manager I had was pretty candid about it, he said he couldn't find another job and was looking to retire so he was going to give me a bad performance review despite actually being the top performer so he wouldn't be affected. How would he be affected by giving you a well-deserved good performance review? I don't understand.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
castlecrasher2 8y ago
>One manager I had was pretty candid about it, he said he couldn't find another job and was looking to retire so he was going to give me a bad performance review despite actually being the top performer so he wouldn't be affected. He was otherwise very apologetic that his hand was forced. I must be dense because I don't understand this. Your manager couldn't find another job, was instead looking to retire, and gave you a bad performance review?
- org3432 8y ago
  Yep, the tl;dr is that at the time my manager's manager didn't appreciate me being transparent on mistakes our department made with other depts. So in an effort to make me quit, aside from other things, he wrote a review for my direct manager and required him to say it was his review. If he didn't he would be fired. Pretty normal stuff at a certain level with insecure managers. Not exactly the same, but Steve Jobs wrote about how they relocated him into an empty building at Apple to make him quit. I was relocated too in fact. The red flags I look for now: - clearly not as smart as their peers in their own or other depts, they're likely struggling and will act irrationally - very ambitious, but risk averse - tells people what their title is whether they asked or not - been at the company their whole career and just went along with the flow There's likely some others, but I'm careful around those folks, they're just trouble.
  - oarabbus_ 8y ago
    Ambitious and risk-averse aren't traits I see in the same person very often

RHSeeger 8y ago

That seems like something you bring up with him to discuss if there's a way to avoid it; and then tape the whole discussion.

org3432 8y ago
This is just how many managers are, the best approach is to just recognize them and avoid them as best you can.
- TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
  It could be argued the best thing to do is gang up on them, record and post your conversations with them, and tirelessly work to undermine them. Otherwise we're all complicit in allowing bad actors to get away with their behaviour.
  - Circumnavigate 8y ago
    In California you are not legally allowed to audio record someone in private without their consent. They must know that they are being recorded for it to be used as evidence in court.
    - stale2002 8y ago
      The point isn't to take things to court. The point is to take things public. The court of public opinion is a hugely effective weapon, if you have the documented evidence to back it up. And if they threaten you about wiretapping laws or whatever, well that just makes the company look even worse in the court of public opinion. If you will notice, nobody at Uber was stupid enough to threaten Susan Fowler for documenting the stuff that happened to her.
    - TheSpiceIsLife 8y ago
      This reminded me of a comment I read some years ago. Here it is: You seem obsessed with laws, as if they possess value and worth in and of themselves, when really they are a very high latency sidechannel of society and power. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6033481 It's probably a bit too sharp a response to your comment, but it certainly get's the point across.

jcrites 8y ago

> One manager I had was pretty candid about it, he said he couldn't find another job and was looking to retire so he was going to give me a bad performance review despite actually being the top performer so he wouldn't be affected. How would he be affected by giving you a well-deserved good performance review? I don't understand.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

castlecrasher2 8y ago

>One manager I had was pretty candid about it, he said he couldn't find another job and was looking to retire so he was going to give me a bad performance review despite actually being the top performer so he wouldn't be affected. He was otherwise very apologetic that his hand was forced. I must be dense because I don't understand this. Your manager couldn't find another job, was instead looking to retire, and gave you a bad performance review?

org3432 8y ago
Yep, the tl;dr is that at the time my manager's manager didn't appreciate me being transparent on mistakes our department made with other depts. So in an effort to make me quit, aside from other things, he wrote a review for my direct manager and required him to say it was his review. If he didn't he would be fired. Pretty normal stuff at a certain level with insecure managers. Not exactly the same, but Steve Jobs wrote about how they relocated him into an empty building at Apple to make him quit. I was relocated too in fact. The red flags I look for now: - clearly not as smart as their peers in their own or other depts, they're likely struggling and will act irrationally - very ambitious, but risk averse - tells people what their title is whether they asked or not - been at the company their whole career and just went along with the flow There's likely some others, but I'm careful around those folks, they're just trouble.
- oarabbus_ 8y ago
  Ambitious and risk-averse aren't traits I see in the same person very often