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If you define the natural numbers this way you'll run into Russell's paradox. For practical purposes that's fine and this is an elegant, modern restatement of F
by throwawaymath 8y ago
If you define the natural numbers this way you'll run into Russell's paradox. For practical purposes that's fine and this is an elegant, modern restatement of Frege.
But if you need to avoid Russell's paradox the sets defining each natural n can't contain n as an element. The easiest such construction was outlined elsewhere in this thread by xamael. Under your category theoretic construction, every natural number n is defined as the category of sets having cardinality n. But then every nth category will necessarily contain infinitely many sets with cardinality n that also contain n. That causes the paradox.
Unfortunately I don't think you can construct the naturals in a category theoretic way while avoiding Russell's paradox since any category by cardinality will fall into that trap. But if you don't need to mind that problem, this is neat.
Responding to your edit: I didn't downvote you; in fact I upvoted this comment because it's correct and it was gray at the time of my writing. My comment is just a point of clarification.
- edflsafoiewq 8y agoI don't understand how Russell's paradox comes in. The set of all eg. pairs does not contain itself.
- throwawaymath 8y agoIf you've defined the natural number 2 to be an arbitrary set with cardinality 2, you're including sets which contain the number 2. That's the basic form of Russell's paradox. If you define the natural number 2 to be the category of pairs, your objects are the sets with cardinality 2, and your relations between objects are equivalence relations. As a consequence your category 2 will contain sets which contain itself.
- ball_of_lint 8y agoWhy is that a problem?