7 ms·
That's just "Exist as physical objects exist" Ie., you're asking someone to find you an object with spatio-temporal properties which, as an object, does not ha
by mjburgess 8y ago
That's just "Exist as physical objects exist"
Ie., you're asking someone to find you an object with spatio-temporal properties which, as an object, does not have spatio-temporal properties.
Likewise you could ask, "find me a smile?!!" and then deny every example was a smile because "it was only a face smiling!".
"Existence" is defined relative to a context in which it can be evaluated, and it -- in general -- does not imply any particular properties.
"To Exit" in general is "to be found in some domain"
2 can be found in the domain of numbers
- cobbzilla 8y agoYes, I could have really tortured my kids and said, you can't even show me a "ball", because it will always be a specific ball and not the archetypal concept of "ball". I probably should, it'd be fun and they're a bit older than when I pulled the "one" game.
- kazinator 8y agoI believe that in fact the numbers do exist as physical objects exist. Just in their own universe. When we reason about numbers, we're embedding a representation of a universe of numbers into our universe. What we call "physical existence" could is also probably just be "math all the way down". Just not in such a way that the number two per se can be an entity for us to behold.
- stcredzero 8y agoI believe that in fact the numbers do exist as physical objects exist. Just in their own universe. How is it any different than believing that unicorns exist as physical objects, just in their own universe? What we call "physical existence" could...just be "math all the way down". Or, math is also a number of simplified alternate views of reality of varying degrees of "applicability." (Where "applicability" has to do with predictive power over reality.)
- kazinator 8y ago> How is it any different than believing that unicorns exist as physical objects, just in their own universe? We have very well-developed representations of the number universe that we can embed into our own universe. These things are governed by precise axioms. By contrast, we don't have such well-developed "unicorn universe". (For starters, what is the definition of "unicorn"? If it's just a horse with a horn, then such a thing is plausible with genetic engineering in our universe.) As we endow the unicorn with additional properties, then it becomes less and less clear that there exists a universe where such a thing can exists other than as an imaginary being. If the concept of a unicorn could be axiomatized, then it could constitute a universe. > Or, math is also a number of simplified alternate views of reality. Well, that's the math that we do; not the math that we (possibly) are.
- stcredzero 8y agoWe have very well-developed representations of the number universe that we can embed into our own universe. These things are governed by precise axioms. By contrast, we don't have such well-developed "unicorn universe". Indeed. The current better known attempts at a "unicorn universe" have problems with power scaling and the square-cube law. https://www.reddit.com/r/mylittlepony/comments/mrs81/according_to_my_dodgy_backofthecoaster_maths/ https://www.reddit.com/r/mylittlepony/comments/mrs81/accordi... Do you have a good definition of what constitutes a "well-developed" universe?
- AgentME 8y ago
- devilshaircut 8y agoAgree. Maybe it is more helpful to think of numbers as adjectives than nouns. Oneness plus twoness equals threeness. The part of speech is sort of irrelevant but it obviates a debate over whether or not instantiation of the unattached idea of a number is important, while still allowing math to occur.
- lisper 8y agoThe "technical" term amongst philosophers is "ontological category": http://blog.rongarret.info/2015/02/31-flavors-of-ontology.html http://blog.rongarret.info/2015/02/31-flavors-of-ontology.ht...
- qubex 8y agoThis reminds me of my Italian grammar teacher telling me that nouns can be broken into two categories: ‘concrete’ and ‘abstract’ (for example, ‘chair’ and ‘love’ respectively). Then came a totally mind bending digression for my eight-year-old mind when she mumbled “well actually all nouns are abstract because there’s no such thing as a chair divorced from reality, there’s nobly instantiations of these abstract concepts we consider close enough to be concrete”. That totally blew my mind. Together with reading The Computational Beauty Of Nature” when it first came out nine years ago those were the two key experiences that drove me towards choosing to get a degree in mathematics.
- mcv 8y ago> all nouns are abstract because there’s no such thing as a chair divorced from reality, > there’s nobly instantiations of these abstract concepts we consider close enough to be > concrete Very Plato for an 8 year old.
- analreceiver 8y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prat%C4%ABtyasamutp%C4%81da