5 ms·

If it is the streaming thing the article mentioned, I just don't get it. How do they get around the fact you introduce round trip delay to every input? Do they

by plopz 8y ago

If it is the streaming thing the article mentioned, I just don't get it. How do they get around the fact you introduce round trip delay to every input? Do they somehow have a way to do client side prediction and reconciliation?

mrep 8y ago
I'm not sure how good it would be for first person shooters, but it worked great for me when I played assassins creed on it. Note, I do have a 100 Mb fiber connection in my apartment.
ASpring 8y ago
I don't think they get around it. For most genres except FPS the round trip delay doesn't cause any issues in gameplay. What's an extra 60ms roundtrip when most people have reaction times around 300ms?
- treis 8y ago
  >What's an extra 60ms roundtrip when most people have reaction times around 300ms? 20% more.
- aaaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
  Here we go again, someone is conflating reaction time with latency sensitivity... Try the following: write a simple snake game in JS or whatever your preferred language is. However, instead of turning the snake in the keyDown/keyUp event handlers, start a 60ms timer and change direction only when the timer fires. Experiment with various time intervals and snake speeds to find out what’s the acceptable latency/speed region.
  - TomVDB 8y ago
    Have you by any chance done this? Care to share the results?
Steltek 8y ago
I've long since moved on from competitive multiplayer games and I never measured it directly. But that said, I haven't noticed a lot of issues with Nvidia's game streaming service with casual use.
ctvo 8y ago
I was in the beta for their Assassins Creed test. For single-player AAA RPG titles it wasn't noticeable. I doubt twitch / competitive games will ever be the target audience.
- bilbo0s 8y ago
  Was it full streaming? Or did you have to download something to your own computer? Having to download only part of the game to stream it would be a bit better than the way things are now, but not much. I guess I'd have to try it to tell? If it was full streaming, just go to the webpage and start playing, that would be cool. (Though, I suspect, a full streaming system would make playing multiplayer games nearly intolerable from a latency perspective.)
  - dougmwne 8y ago
    Full streaming right from Chrome. No plugin or downloads needed. Loaded the game in a few seconds. It was cool.
    - bilbo0s 8y ago
      Yeah, then it's likely gonna have some latency problems. But latency will decrease with time. I'd imagine in maybe 2 to 5 years most US consumers might have the latency profile to use a system like that comfortably. Probably not now though. Especially if you're playing, say, Fortnite, against 95 other people who have their game loaded locally on a fast network. You're just asking for a frustrating day.
      - dougmwne 8y ago
        I wonder if a multiplayer shooter would be playable if the game was both hosted and rendered for all players within the same data center. You still have latency to the server when playing multiplayer, so if you eliminate that by hosting the game next to the computer rendering it, it might work well?
      - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago
dougmwne 8y ago
I was in the project stream beta and the latency was never noticeable for me. I have seen noticeable latency on TVs not set to game mode when playing on xbox, but did not see any streaming latency for the beta. I was on a cable internet connection and the display occasionally pixelated during network slowdowns, but there was still no latency noticeable. I assume that Google has enough data center locations that they can render you at the nearest one.
TomVDB 8y ago
I played a couple of hours of some Lego 3D game with game streaming and latency wasn't an issue at all. There are many games out there that don't require twitch reactions. Many years ago, when the Netflix CEO said that they'd switch to video streaming sometime in the future, I thought it was a crazy idea: how could you possibly have so much bandwidth? (I'm not the worlds greatest visionary.) I think things may go the same way for streaming. If it's cheap enough with no installation hassle, why not?
intended 8y ago
You offer single player games.
rasz 8y ago
They dont, instead streaming companies are counting on people not knowing any better. From my competitive experience maybe top couple of percent (or even less) of player base is aware of such minutia as additional tens of milliseconds, influence of good mouse/keyboard, fast monitors, framerates. Most people are perfectly fine playing on a laptop(!), or FPS using controller on a console - those people wont feel any difference.
- J5892 8y ago
  In the Assassin's Creed beta, the input lag was barely noticeable most of the time. For competitive games it's likely unuseable, but for a game like Assassin's Creed, where super-quick input isn't very important, it's perfectly fine.
  - rasz 8y ago
    Additionally you can expect deals with game publishers for next gen games to include latency tolerant AI, aka easy easy mode, hidden from users, like autoaim in all console games today.
babypuncher 8y ago
They are banking on a large segment of players just not noticing the lag. It scares me because I absolutely do notice the lag, and I can see publishers wanting to move to something like this exclusively in the not too distant future.
- MrMember 8y ago
  There will always be a market for "non-streaming" games. Fighting games for example would be unplayable with streaming latency. I don't see games moving primarily to streaming for a long time.

by plopz 8y ago

mrep 8y ago

I'm not sure how good it would be for first person shooters, but it worked great for me when I played assassins creed on it. Note, I do have a 100 Mb fiber connection in my apartment.

ASpring 8y ago

I don't think they get around it. For most genres except FPS the round trip delay doesn't cause any issues in gameplay. What's an extra 60ms roundtrip when most people have reaction times around 300ms?

treis 8y ago
>What's an extra 60ms roundtrip when most people have reaction times around 300ms? 20% more.
aaaaaaaaaaab 8y ago
Here we go again, someone is conflating reaction time with latency sensitivity... Try the following: write a simple snake game in JS or whatever your preferred language is. However, instead of turning the snake in the keyDown/keyUp event handlers, start a 60ms timer and change direction only when the timer fires. Experiment with various time intervals and snake speeds to find out what’s the acceptable latency/speed region.
- TomVDB 8y ago
  Have you by any chance done this? Care to share the results?

Steltek 8y ago

I've long since moved on from competitive multiplayer games and I never measured it directly. But that said, I haven't noticed a lot of issues with Nvidia's game streaming service with casual use.

ctvo 8y ago

I was in the beta for their Assassins Creed test. For single-player AAA RPG titles it wasn't noticeable. I doubt twitch / competitive games will ever be the target audience.

bilbo0s 8y ago
Was it full streaming? Or did you have to download something to your own computer? Having to download only part of the game to stream it would be a bit better than the way things are now, but not much. I guess I'd have to try it to tell? If it was full streaming, just go to the webpage and start playing, that would be cool. (Though, I suspect, a full streaming system would make playing multiplayer games nearly intolerable from a latency perspective.)
- dougmwne 8y ago
  Full streaming right from Chrome. No plugin or downloads needed. Loaded the game in a few seconds. It was cool.
  - bilbo0s 8y ago
    Yeah, then it's likely gonna have some latency problems. But latency will decrease with time. I'd imagine in maybe 2 to 5 years most US consumers might have the latency profile to use a system like that comfortably. Probably not now though. Especially if you're playing, say, Fortnite, against 95 other people who have their game loaded locally on a fast network. You're just asking for a frustrating day.
    - dougmwne 8y ago
      I wonder if a multiplayer shooter would be playable if the game was both hosted and rendered for all players within the same data center. You still have latency to the server when playing multiplayer, so if you eliminate that by hosting the game next to the computer rendering it, it might work well?
    - Sohcahtoa82 8y ago

dougmwne 8y ago

I was in the project stream beta and the latency was never noticeable for me. I have seen noticeable latency on TVs not set to game mode when playing on xbox, but did not see any streaming latency for the beta. I was on a cable internet connection and the display occasionally pixelated during network slowdowns, but there was still no latency noticeable. I assume that Google has enough data center locations that they can render you at the nearest one.

TomVDB 8y ago

I played a couple of hours of some Lego 3D game with game streaming and latency wasn't an issue at all. There are many games out there that don't require twitch reactions. Many years ago, when the Netflix CEO said that they'd switch to video streaming sometime in the future, I thought it was a crazy idea: how could you possibly have so much bandwidth? (I'm not the worlds greatest visionary.) I think things may go the same way for streaming. If it's cheap enough with no installation hassle, why not?

intended 8y ago

You offer single player games.

rasz 8y ago

They dont, instead streaming companies are counting on people not knowing any better. From my competitive experience maybe top couple of percent (or even less) of player base is aware of such minutia as additional tens of milliseconds, influence of good mouse/keyboard, fast monitors, framerates. Most people are perfectly fine playing on a laptop(!), or FPS using controller on a console - those people wont feel any difference.

J5892 8y ago
In the Assassin's Creed beta, the input lag was barely noticeable most of the time. For competitive games it's likely unuseable, but for a game like Assassin's Creed, where super-quick input isn't very important, it's perfectly fine.
- rasz 8y ago
  Additionally you can expect deals with game publishers for next gen games to include latency tolerant AI, aka easy easy mode, hidden from users, like autoaim in all console games today.

babypuncher 8y ago

They are banking on a large segment of players just not noticing the lag. It scares me because I absolutely do notice the lag, and I can see publishers wanting to move to something like this exclusively in the not too distant future.

MrMember 8y ago
There will always be a market for "non-streaming" games. Fighting games for example would be unplayable with streaming latency. I don't see games moving primarily to streaming for a long time.