4 ms·

As an objective third party, I think your chronic disease, your vast research of it all, and your corresponding frustration has warped your ability to have conv

by PakG1 8y ago

As an objective third party, I think your chronic disease, your vast research of it all, and your corresponding frustration has warped your ability to have conversations with people who are less knowledgeable than you are. Where there is no ill intent, insults should not be taken. The insults are your own interpretation, there is no reason to take insult where none exists, especially when someone is trying to be helpful. Best to just shrug and say, "yeah, thanks, but researched this." When my users are trying to tell me what is causing a bug and they're drastically wrong, I don't feel insulted that they think I don't know my own system. I just smile and have a nice conversation with them. There is no point in picking fights, and the person trying to help is not the one picking the fight. I'm sorry for your chronic disease, and I can't imagine what it's like. I can't speak to that. But I believe you're taking it too negatively too personally when there's no need to do so. I imagine that isn't too great for personal happiness either.

SolaceQuantum 8y ago
> Where there is no ill intent, insults should not be taken. I don't know if this is true even in the general case. It is entirely possible to insult someone with no ill intent, such as "you speak well for a black" or "you're funny for a female" or "you're alright for a homosexual". I don't believe "have you tried keto?" to a chronically ill person requires different cognitive faculties here. Note: I am also an objective third party. I don't have a chonic illness and have no dog in this fight. It seems to me that a chronically ill person is saying "while your intentions may be good, they are deceasing my quality of life", and I'm choosing to believe them.
- PakG1 8y ago
  This makes sense to me. I'm sorry to shakna, many apologies. Wish you the best.
shakna 8y ago
> As an objective third party, I think your chronic disease, your vast research of it all, and your corresponding frustration has warped your ability to have conversations with people who are less knowledgeable than you are. No, this is a common frustration of the entire community. People feel powerless, so they try and help, but you aren't helping. You either cause irritation because it's then ten thousandth time I've heard that advice, or frustration because you are showing a deep lack of understanding. > When my users are trying to tell me what is causing a bug and they're drastically wrong, I don't feel insulted that they think I don't know my own system. I just smile and have a nice conversation with them. There is no point in picking fights, and the person trying to help is not the one picking the fight. No. Don't. The relationships are not the same. An illness that affects every part of your life is deeply personal, and you are faced every day with stigma because of it. You're not suggesting useless information, because of the culture and proxy you have to it, you're suggesting the affected person hasn't tried hard enough. > But I believe you're taking it too negatively too personally when there's no need to do so. I imagine that isn't too great for personal happiness either. Getting told that I need to listen politely when someone is suggesting an idea of how to fix my genetics is personal. You don't tell someone that they shouldn't be using a wheelchair, or should be using a different one, unless you have a direct and professional connection with their health. > Where there is no ill intent, insults should not be taken. Insult was not immediately taken. They were repeatedly informed that this avenue of conversation is insulting. They responded by telling me I'm wrong. As have you, now. You can't imagine my life with chronic disease? Fine. I'm happy to guide you in interacting with someone with it. Step one, is not assume you know better. Your suggestions are unwelcome, because they carry stigma. They remind me of all the people I have faced who have told me that my disease is either not real, or able to be overcome by one simple trick. I'm not angry at you - but I have to say, you have been very... Unhelpful. More unhappiness comes from misguided altruism, than quiet acceptance.
- PakG1 8y ago
  SolaceQuantum has explained it to me really clearly. I was wrong. Many apologies and wish you the best.
  - shakna 8y ago
    Thanks, and hopefully this can smooth some paths for you in the future, to help everyone involved.
- dang 8y ago
  Can you please not perpetuate flamewars on HN? I don't mean to minimize your situation, your experience, or the frustrations you've encountered. But taking out those frustrations on fellow HN users, regardless of how wrong they are, is not the way to advocate for your point of view on Hacker News. Not only does it sink discussion quality below the level we're hoping for here, it poisons goodwill between users, leading to worse in the future. Also, it isn't in your interest to do this, because arguing in this style only weakens your case. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

by PakG1 8y ago

SolaceQuantum 8y ago

> Where there is no ill intent, insults should not be taken. I don't know if this is true even in the general case. It is entirely possible to insult someone with no ill intent, such as "you speak well for a black" or "you're funny for a female" or "you're alright for a homosexual". I don't believe "have you tried keto?" to a chronically ill person requires different cognitive faculties here. Note: I am also an objective third party. I don't have a chonic illness and have no dog in this fight. It seems to me that a chronically ill person is saying "while your intentions may be good, they are deceasing my quality of life", and I'm choosing to believe them.

PakG1 8y ago
This makes sense to me. I'm sorry to shakna, many apologies. Wish you the best.

shakna 8y ago

> As an objective third party, I think your chronic disease, your vast research of it all, and your corresponding frustration has warped your ability to have conversations with people who are less knowledgeable than you are. No, this is a common frustration of the entire community. People feel powerless, so they try and help, but you aren't helping. You either cause irritation because it's then ten thousandth time I've heard that advice, or frustration because you are showing a deep lack of understanding. > When my users are trying to tell me what is causing a bug and they're drastically wrong, I don't feel insulted that they think I don't know my own system. I just smile and have a nice conversation with them. There is no point in picking fights, and the person trying to help is not the one picking the fight. No. Don't. The relationships are not the same. An illness that affects every part of your life is deeply personal, and you are faced every day with stigma because of it. You're not suggesting useless information, because of the culture and proxy you have to it, you're suggesting the affected person hasn't tried hard enough. > But I believe you're taking it too negatively too personally when there's no need to do so. I imagine that isn't too great for personal happiness either. Getting told that I need to listen politely when someone is suggesting an idea of how to fix my genetics is personal. You don't tell someone that they shouldn't be using a wheelchair, or should be using a different one, unless you have a direct and professional connection with their health. > Where there is no ill intent, insults should not be taken. Insult was not immediately taken. They were repeatedly informed that this avenue of conversation is insulting. They responded by telling me I'm wrong. As have you, now. You can't imagine my life with chronic disease? Fine. I'm happy to guide you in interacting with someone with it. Step one, is not assume you know better. Your suggestions are unwelcome, because they carry stigma. They remind me of all the people I have faced who have told me that my disease is either not real, or able to be overcome by one simple trick. I'm not angry at you - but I have to say, you have been very... Unhelpful. More unhappiness comes from misguided altruism, than quiet acceptance.

PakG1 8y ago
SolaceQuantum has explained it to me really clearly. I was wrong. Many apologies and wish you the best.
- shakna 8y ago
  Thanks, and hopefully this can smooth some paths for you in the future, to help everyone involved.
dang 8y ago
Can you please not perpetuate flamewars on HN? I don't mean to minimize your situation, your experience, or the frustrations you've encountered. But taking out those frustrations on fellow HN users, regardless of how wrong they are, is not the way to advocate for your point of view on Hacker News. Not only does it sink discussion quality below the level we're hoping for here, it poisons goodwill between users, leading to worse in the future. Also, it isn't in your interest to do this, because arguing in this style only weakens your case. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html