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Interesting as I don't seem to have this issue on the two 2018 MBP I've had. Originally I had a release day i7/32GB/1TB/560X model but it had a power/charging i

Interesting as I don't seem to have this issue on the two 2018 MBP I've had. Originally I had a release day i7/32GB/1TB/560X model but it had a power/charging issue so Apple replaced it with an i9 model which has been perfect. I have worried a lot about the keyboard breaking but so far it has been fine. I actually really like working on it now with the exception of the TouchBar which is the most useless change to keyboard design in years. I really enjoy this laptop. I bought it after two years of pain buying, replacing and ultimately returning sub-par Windows laptops from Dell, Lenovo and Microsoft. Apple gets a lot of hate in the tech press (and regular press sometimes) whereas people seem to accept far worse issues from only-slightly-cheaper Dell, Microsoft, etc. laptops. The Dell XPS 15 9570 has far worse audio issues (DPC latency, crackling/popping speakers), coil whine on the majority of units shipped, keyboard issues (ironically I had more keyboard issues with my XPS 15) and much worse thermal throttling compared to the MBP 2018. Sleep issues (honestly just support S3 ffs) I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. From thermal throttling, constant BSOD/crashing when de/reattaching the performance base, pen input skipping and a whole host of silly-but-annoying software issues and of course sleep issues because not even Microsoft's own hardware works properly with their new S0i3 Connected Standby crap. The MBP isn't perfect. The constant anxiety that something will kill the keyboard sucks but on the whole it is without a doubt the best modern laptop I have used in that it has the least issues. It sleeps when I close the lid, it also comes back on instantly, it never needs to be rebooted to get things working again, screen is stunning, runs cool and quiet when not being pushed with no random spinning up of the fans for a few minutes, etc.

rsynnott 8y ago
> I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. I mean, to an extent you expect that from Microsoft (certainly their whole Surface line has been pretty buggy). People are more annoyed at similar issues with Macs because historically they haven't had them (or at least have had them less than other vendors). To be honest, I suspect the 2018 MBPs _still_ have fewer weird issues than most of the competition (imagine how Apple users would react if it routinely shipped with coil whine, or the sort of screen quality issues that are common on the Surface line...) but it definitely feels like Apple have slipped a bit, and given that their whole thing was always "it just works", that's not great.
- satysin 8y ago
  I think people are misremembering the past as the MacBook Pro line has always had issues. GPUs that die, screen staining, etc. I feel with tech news being more mainstream and Twitter people are more aware of such issues. Plus Apple being who they are is a magnet for any kind of problem being big news. Dell and Microsoft have just has many - if not more - quality issues but I don't see articles on news sites about the XPS 15 having thermal throttling and audio issues 9 months after launch still. Just to be clear I'm not defending Apple. They need to improve. I just wish Dell and others would get as much criticism. Perhaps then they would actually take fixing these problems more seriously. So far Dell has said nothing about official fixes for the garbage Realtek audio device in the XPS 15 (1970) which has all kinds of issues.
  - rsynnott 8y ago
    Oh, they definitely have, yes (I do think people have a bit of an idealised view of the 2012-2015 models). Recent problems have arguably been more widespread, though, particularly the keyboard failure thing. And yeah, Apple are definitely held to a higher standard, but that's kind of how they've positioned themselves, so they're probably stuck with it now.
    - satysin 8y ago
      Yeah I agree the butterfly keyboard issue is more widespread but that is down to them trying a new and poor design. The only device I have owned with a butterfly keyboard is this 2018 MBP 15" and so far I haven't had an issue. My daughter has a 2018 MBA and hasn't mentioned any issues either. Not saying they have solved the problems as others have had issues but it hasn't been an issue for me personally. Yet (touch wood!).
endorphone 8y ago
It seems like people are comparing current Apple products with a mythology of Apple products that never actually existed -- an invented fiction where in the past the hardware and software was the height of perfection. Every Apple device and software product ever has had a number of issues, many significant. As you mentioned, however, the competitors hardly do better -- the litany of absolutely devastating faults with Dell devices I've experienced (paramount being that they never lasted more than a small fraction of the promised battery life) makes Apple look untouchable. Apple should do better. For one MBPs should have something better than a cheesy 1 year warranty, especially given the fears about keyboards et al -- it essentially forces an AppleCare+ purchase. But the claims that this is a deadly direction seem dubious.
- satysin 8y ago
  Yes this is how I feel also. I constantly hear the phrase "This wouldn't have happened under Jobs" and it pisses me off. Apple had loads of problems with hardware under Jobs. You're right Apple should do better. I always factor AppleCare into the machine cost the same way I used to with Lenovo's 3 year on-site warranty upgrade after they changed it to depot by default and Dell's Plus warranty option, etc. IMHO Apple isn't any better or worst than they have ever been but they are getting cheaper with things like removing the AC extension cable, not including a USB-C to USB-A dongle like Dell, etc. do Considering how much of a lottery it is buying a Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft laptop is though there isn't much you can do. Apple is usually 20-30% more expensive but I have easily wasted 200+% in time waiting around for Dell engineers or shipping a unit back to Microsoft (as they don't even offer on-site in Europe!).

rsynnott 8y ago

> I had a Surface Book 2 with a whole host of issues as well. I mean, to an extent you expect that from Microsoft (certainly their whole Surface line has been pretty buggy). People are more annoyed at similar issues with Macs because historically they haven't had them (or at least have had them less than other vendors). To be honest, I suspect the 2018 MBPs _still_ have fewer weird issues than most of the competition (imagine how Apple users would react if it routinely shipped with coil whine, or the sort of screen quality issues that are common on the Surface line...) but it definitely feels like Apple have slipped a bit, and given that their whole thing was always "it just works", that's not great.

satysin 8y ago
I think people are misremembering the past as the MacBook Pro line has always had issues. GPUs that die, screen staining, etc. I feel with tech news being more mainstream and Twitter people are more aware of such issues. Plus Apple being who they are is a magnet for any kind of problem being big news. Dell and Microsoft have just has many - if not more - quality issues but I don't see articles on news sites about the XPS 15 having thermal throttling and audio issues 9 months after launch still. Just to be clear I'm not defending Apple. They need to improve. I just wish Dell and others would get as much criticism. Perhaps then they would actually take fixing these problems more seriously. So far Dell has said nothing about official fixes for the garbage Realtek audio device in the XPS 15 (1970) which has all kinds of issues.
- rsynnott 8y ago
  Oh, they definitely have, yes (I do think people have a bit of an idealised view of the 2012-2015 models). Recent problems have arguably been more widespread, though, particularly the keyboard failure thing. And yeah, Apple are definitely held to a higher standard, but that's kind of how they've positioned themselves, so they're probably stuck with it now.
  - satysin 8y ago
    Yeah I agree the butterfly keyboard issue is more widespread but that is down to them trying a new and poor design. The only device I have owned with a butterfly keyboard is this 2018 MBP 15" and so far I haven't had an issue. My daughter has a 2018 MBA and hasn't mentioned any issues either. Not saying they have solved the problems as others have had issues but it hasn't been an issue for me personally. Yet (touch wood!).

endorphone 8y ago

It seems like people are comparing current Apple products with a mythology of Apple products that never actually existed -- an invented fiction where in the past the hardware and software was the height of perfection. Every Apple device and software product ever has had a number of issues, many significant. As you mentioned, however, the competitors hardly do better -- the litany of absolutely devastating faults with Dell devices I've experienced (paramount being that they never lasted more than a small fraction of the promised battery life) makes Apple look untouchable. Apple should do better. For one MBPs should have something better than a cheesy 1 year warranty, especially given the fears about keyboards et al -- it essentially forces an AppleCare+ purchase. But the claims that this is a deadly direction seem dubious.

satysin 8y ago
Yes this is how I feel also. I constantly hear the phrase "This wouldn't have happened under Jobs" and it pisses me off. Apple had loads of problems with hardware under Jobs. You're right Apple should do better. I always factor AppleCare into the machine cost the same way I used to with Lenovo's 3 year on-site warranty upgrade after they changed it to depot by default and Dell's Plus warranty option, etc. IMHO Apple isn't any better or worst than they have ever been but they are getting cheaper with things like removing the AC extension cable, not including a USB-C to USB-A dongle like Dell, etc. do Considering how much of a lottery it is buying a Dell, HP, Lenovo, Microsoft laptop is though there isn't much you can do. Apple is usually 20-30% more expensive but I have easily wasted 200+% in time waiting around for Dell engineers or shipping a unit back to Microsoft (as they don't even offer on-site in Europe!).