4 ms·

Or use Rust to get all 3!

pjmlp 8y ago
They still need a bit of work to improve the 3., specially against GC languages.
semi-extrinsic 8y ago
I'm sorry, but Rust certainly doesn't score high on usability. Compare e.g. the "Guessing Game" intro from the official docs, just look at how much more complicated both the code and the tutorial is as compared to how you would do the same in Python, heck even in Fortran: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutorial.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutoria...
- adrianN 8y ago
  I don't think comparing 100 line programs is a good benchmark for usability. Most software is much larger and the design choices you have to make for a programming language should favor programs with at least a few thousand lines of code.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    Then try to do a few thousand lines of code in Gtk-rs, including custom widgets, the issues with borrow checker and internal mutable struct data accessible to callbacks is what lead to the creation of Relm.
    - adrianN 8y ago
      The GUI story in Rust is currently terrible, I agree. But writing GUIs in Python with wrappers to C(++) libraries is not exactly nice either ;)
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        To me it looks pretty nice. https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python
- giornogiovanna 8y ago
  The final code is longer because Rust's standard I/O is a lot more minimal than Python's, Fortran's, and even C's. If you use a library like [text_io], which provides the equivalent of scanf, then I don't think that it'd be any longer. [text_io]: https://crates.io/crates/text_io https://crates.io/crates/text_io
  - semi-extrinsic 8y ago
    But surely, having a sane way to do I/O in the standard library is one of the traits included in "Usability"?
    - giornogiovanna 8y ago
      Why does it have to be in the standard library when adding it as a dependency involves adding just a single line? Since (a) there's no one true way to do input parsing, and (b) most projects don't need to interactively ask for input, it doesn't sound like something that belongs in a standard library.

They still need a bit of work to improve the 3., specially against GC languages.

I'm sorry, but Rust certainly doesn't score high on usability. Compare e.g. the "Guessing Game" intro from the official docs, just look at how much more complicated both the code and the tutorial is as compared to how you would do the same in Python, heck even in Fortran: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutorial.html https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ch02-00-guessing-game-tutoria...

adrianN 8y ago
I don't think comparing 100 line programs is a good benchmark for usability. Most software is much larger and the design choices you have to make for a programming language should favor programs with at least a few thousand lines of code.
- pjmlp 8y ago
  Then try to do a few thousand lines of code in Gtk-rs, including custom widgets, the issues with borrow checker and internal mutable struct data accessible to callbacks is what lead to the creation of Relm.
  - adrianN 8y ago
    The GUI story in Rust is currently terrible, I agree. But writing GUIs in Python with wrappers to C(++) libraries is not exactly nice either ;)
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      To me it looks pretty nice. https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python https://www.qt.io/qt-for-python
giornogiovanna 8y ago
The final code is longer because Rust's standard I/O is a lot more minimal than Python's, Fortran's, and even C's. If you use a library like [text_io], which provides the equivalent of scanf, then I don't think that it'd be any longer. [text_io]: https://crates.io/crates/text_io https://crates.io/crates/text_io
- semi-extrinsic 8y ago
  But surely, having a sane way to do I/O in the standard library is one of the traits included in "Usability"?
  - giornogiovanna 8y ago
    Why does it have to be in the standard library when adding it as a dependency involves adding just a single line? Since (a) there's no one true way to do input parsing, and (b) most projects don't need to interactively ask for input, it doesn't sound like something that belongs in a standard library.