5 ms·

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/c

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-1d-x-vs-nikon-d5-comparison-28795/images/highres-nikon-d5-top-recropped_1454493020.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-v... This might blow your mind, but professionally-oriented cameras all have dedicated buttons to toggle metering modes without looking away from the viewfinder.

StavrosK 8y ago
The 5D has twice the functions on the button, even, since pressing the button and scrolling one wheel does one thing, and the other another. It's very handy. In comparison, I was trying to set bracketed exposure on my RX100 yesterday, and I still haven't managed to find the feature.
tambourine_man 8y ago
You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. Canons are not my cup of tea, but I can get by if needed to. Sonys, on the other hand, have amazing sensors and great glass, yet bury such important features under menus requiring pressing the Fn button while staring at the LCD, or something like it.
- frankchn 8y ago
  > I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. What's the issue, then? The Nikon shooting interface obviously works well for you, and I think that is far more important and used than changing daylight savings settings. > Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare. I don't know enough about Nikon or Sony, but I use Canon and I know where all those settings are. Even if you want to search the web to find where they are, I don't think it is a big deal: most of those settings you listed I change once or twice a year. In any case, I think it is better than the settings app on my iPhone, where the General sub-menu contains everything from controlling Background App Refresh (Why not in individual app sub-menus?) to enabling iTunes Wi-Fi Sync (there is an iTunes and App Store sub-menu too).
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    As I said elsewhere in this thread, better Menu UI would be a side benefit. I’m craving for fast processor and powerful software on the back of a big sensor and glass.
    - frankchn 8y ago
      What do you want the fast processor and powerful software to do, though? For instance, I can't imagine trying to cram the Lightroom UI into a 4" screen on the back of my camera is a good experience, especially when I have a 30" 4K screen at home to edit on. To me, the current Lightroom for iOS is nowhere near as usable as the desktop version, and still quite a bit slower.
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        >What do you want the fast processor and powerful software to do? What they already do in smartphones, but better. Almost guarantee you’ll never miss a shot (no blinks, blur, bad exposure), better signal processing, etc > I can't imagine trying to cram the Lightroom UI into a 4" screen Me neither. I’m not proposing that in the slightest
        frankchn 8y ago
        > What they already do in smartphones, but better. Almost guarantee you’ll never miss a shot (no blinks, blur, bad exposure), better signal processing, etc OK, but that seems to be turning the camera into a point-and-shoot and I am not sure most of what is left of the ILC market wants that (or maybe it is just me). For me, I would ultimately want to control things like exposure, shutter opening, etc... myself (who is to say a "bad" over/under-exposed photo or some blur won't make for a better photo?). I think people who want a point-and-shoot like experience are by-and-large are happy with smartphone cameras today (especially with advanced processing like Android's Night Sight), and they are not going to carry around a bulky ILC just to take photos. In any case, I think Zeiss is trying to do something similar to what you want with the ZX1, and I will be interested to see how large that market is.
- arghwhat 8y ago
  > You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. You might want to avoid making arbitrary assumptions about anonymous debaters, who may just as well be far more experienced than you, especially when said experience is not particularly relevant to the discussion of easy operation. It's not interesting to know if someone can efficiently navigate an instrument after 25 years of experience with it. At that point, quirky UX ends up entirely concealed by muscle memory, and such person ends up being a poor source of input for UX matters.
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    >You might want to avoid making arbitrary assumptions about anonymous debaters… https://keybase.io/eirik https://keybase.io/eirik >…who may just as well be far more experienced than you I wasn’t referring to myself. But to photographers in their 50/60s. > It's not interesting to know if someone can efficiently navigate an instrument after 25 years of experience with it. At that point, quirky UX ends up entirely concealed by muscle memory, and such person ends up being a poor source of input for UX matters. Agreed. I made the same point a few comments above.
    - arghwhat 8y ago
      > https://keybase.io/eirik https://keybase.io/eirik I can't tell how many years of experience someone has from a profile picture. Can you? > I wasn’t referring to myself. But to photographers in their 50/60s. You worded it such that it referred to yourself. You can't argue using other people's experience.

StavrosK 8y ago

The 5D has twice the functions on the button, even, since pressing the button and scrolling one wheel does one thing, and the other another. It's very handy. In comparison, I was trying to set bracketed exposure on my RX100 yesterday, and I still haven't managed to find the feature.

tambourine_man 8y ago

You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. Canons are not my cup of tea, but I can get by if needed to. Sonys, on the other hand, have amazing sensors and great glass, yet bury such important features under menus requiring pressing the Fn button while staring at the LCD, or something like it.

frankchn 8y ago
> I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. What's the issue, then? The Nikon shooting interface obviously works well for you, and I think that is far more important and used than changing daylight savings settings. > Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare. I don't know enough about Nikon or Sony, but I use Canon and I know where all those settings are. Even if you want to search the web to find where they are, I don't think it is a big deal: most of those settings you listed I change once or twice a year. In any case, I think it is better than the settings app on my iPhone, where the General sub-menu contains everything from controlling Background App Refresh (Why not in individual app sub-menus?) to enabling iTunes Wi-Fi Sync (there is an iTunes and App Store sub-menu too).
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  As I said elsewhere in this thread, better Menu UI would be a side benefit. I’m craving for fast processor and powerful software on the back of a big sensor and glass.
  - frankchn 8y ago
    What do you want the fast processor and powerful software to do, though? For instance, I can't imagine trying to cram the Lightroom UI into a 4" screen on the back of my camera is a good experience, especially when I have a 30" 4K screen at home to edit on. To me, the current Lightroom for iOS is nowhere near as usable as the desktop version, and still quite a bit slower.
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      >What do you want the fast processor and powerful software to do? What they already do in smartphones, but better. Almost guarantee you’ll never miss a shot (no blinks, blur, bad exposure), better signal processing, etc > I can't imagine trying to cram the Lightroom UI into a 4" screen Me neither. I’m not proposing that in the slightest
      - frankchn 8y ago
        > What they already do in smartphones, but better. Almost guarantee you’ll never miss a shot (no blinks, blur, bad exposure), better signal processing, etc OK, but that seems to be turning the camera into a point-and-shoot and I am not sure most of what is left of the ILC market wants that (or maybe it is just me). For me, I would ultimately want to control things like exposure, shutter opening, etc... myself (who is to say a "bad" over/under-exposed photo or some blur won't make for a better photo?). I think people who want a point-and-shoot like experience are by-and-large are happy with smartphone cameras today (especially with advanced processing like Android's Night Sight), and they are not going to carry around a bulky ILC just to take photos. In any case, I think Zeiss is trying to do something similar to what you want with the ZX1, and I will be interested to see how large that market is.
arghwhat 8y ago
> You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. You might want to avoid making arbitrary assumptions about anonymous debaters, who may just as well be far more experienced than you, especially when said experience is not particularly relevant to the discussion of easy operation. It's not interesting to know if someone can efficiently navigate an instrument after 25 years of experience with it. At that point, quirky UX ends up entirely concealed by muscle memory, and such person ends up being a poor source of input for UX matters.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  >You might want to avoid making arbitrary assumptions about anonymous debaters… https://keybase.io/eirik https://keybase.io/eirik >…who may just as well be far more experienced than you I wasn’t referring to myself. But to photographers in their 50/60s. > It's not interesting to know if someone can efficiently navigate an instrument after 25 years of experience with it. At that point, quirky UX ends up entirely concealed by muscle memory, and such person ends up being a poor source of input for UX matters. Agreed. I made the same point a few comments above.
  - arghwhat 8y ago
    > https://keybase.io/eirik https://keybase.io/eirik I can't tell how many years of experience someone has from a profile picture. Can you? > I wasn’t referring to myself. But to photographers in their 50/60s. You worded it such that it referred to yourself. You can't argue using other people's experience.