5 ms·

Honestly, I think that would be an awful downgrade. The software on, say, a Canon camera is fast, reliable and easy to use. Magic Lantern is "just" about adding

Honestly, I think that would be an awful downgrade. The software on, say, a Canon camera is fast, reliable and easy to use. Magic Lantern is "just" about adding even more advanced advanced and/or obscure features.

tambourine_man 8y ago
>The software on, say, a Canon camera is fast, reliable and easy to use. I think this is Stockholm syndrome speaking. Most photographers have no problems installing apps and upgrading their phones. Yet ask them to set a timer, change focus/metering point and it's a nightmare. Let's not even talk about Canon's camera control/export app, whatever it's called. Software is hard.
- StavrosK 8y ago
  What photographer can't change the metering without even looking at the camera? It's literally the thumb knob.
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    I’m taking about Matrix Metering, Center-weighted or Spot Metering. I deal with photographers in their 50s/60s weakly. They all love their phones and hate the menu screen on their Canon/Nikon/Sony. You set it up the way you like it and hope to never need to touch it again. Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare.
    - Eiriksmal 8y ago
      http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-1d-x-vs-nikon-d5-comparison-28795/images/highres-nikon-d5-top-recropped_1454493020.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-v... This might blow your mind, but professionally-oriented cameras all have dedicated buttons to toggle metering modes without looking away from the viewfinder.
      - StavrosK 8y ago
        The 5D has twice the functions on the button, even, since pressing the button and scrolling one wheel does one thing, and the other another. It's very handy. In comparison, I was trying to set bracketed exposure on my RX100 yesterday, and I still haven't managed to find the feature.
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. Canons are not my cup of tea, but I can get by if needed to. Sonys, on the other hand, have amazing sensors and great glass, yet bury such important features under menus requiring pressing the Fn button while staring at the LCD, or something like it.
        frankchn 8y ago
        > I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. What's the issue, then? The Nikon shooting interface obviously works well for you, and I think that is far more important and used than changing daylight savings settings. > Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare. I don't know enough about Nikon or Sony, but I use Canon and I know where all those settings are. Even if you want to search the web to find where they are, I don't think it is a big deal: most of those settings you listed I change once or twice a year. In any case, I think it is better than the settings app on my iPhone, where the General sub-menu contains everything from controlling Background App Refresh (Why not in individual app sub-menus?) to enabling iTunes Wi-Fi Sync (there is an iTunes and App Store sub-menu too).
        tambourine_man 8y ago
        As I said elsewhere in this thread, better Menu UI would be a side benefit. I’m craving for fast processor and powerful software on the back of a big sensor and glass.
    - FireBeyond 8y ago
      I'm trying to figure out the subset of people who are saving RAWs but relying on the camera's EXIF data, when Lightroom et al are perfectly capable of setting all the metadata right there. Get into the enthusiast / prosumer models and there's more buttons for a reason. I want to change metering on my 5D4? I press the metering hard button on the top of the camera.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      On the 5D, press the metering button and turn the knob. About the rest, I've never timed it because I've never needed to do it. Lightroom does most for me, and even the card thing would be roughly a one-time thing. I don't know what a comparison between a 6" touch display on a phone and a 2" non-touch display on a camera is supposed to show, but the camera menu isn't that hard: press menu, scroll to the appropriate section, select menu item and change what you need. It's pretty much the same on phones as well.
    - arghwhat 8y ago
      On the other hand, all you can control on an iPhone with the stock app is spot metering following the focus point. The reason people dislike menus is that there's a lot of things to control. It's nice without it, right until you need to tweak something.
- arghwhat 8y ago
  I'm not really a photographer, but a software developer with gadget cravings causing me to have a few cameras of different brands. Canon's smartphone app is quite terrible (although this is a slam at smartphone UX, not camera UX), but I can't really see smartphone apps for cameras as anything other than a useless gimmick. However, that app has no relation to how it is to use a modern camera. Comparing the UI's of iOS, Sony's Android camera app, Sony's A6000 and Canon mirrorless/dslr, Canon's modern mirrorless UX is by far the best. Easiest to use, prettiest, etc. For everything an iPhone can do, Canon works exactly the same, but then Canon also does so much more. Focus point is by touch screen, and it's much more responsive than my phone. It also seems much smarter with regards to tracking. Important settings are in the HUD, rest in an quick menu one touch away. All of this is of course subjective and anecdotal, but I would by quite saddened to end up with smartphone-d cameras. I do not see it making any positive improvement.

tambourine_man 8y ago

>The software on, say, a Canon camera is fast, reliable and easy to use. I think this is Stockholm syndrome speaking. Most photographers have no problems installing apps and upgrading their phones. Yet ask them to set a timer, change focus/metering point and it's a nightmare. Let's not even talk about Canon's camera control/export app, whatever it's called. Software is hard.

StavrosK 8y ago
What photographer can't change the metering without even looking at the camera? It's literally the thumb knob.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  I’m taking about Matrix Metering, Center-weighted or Spot Metering. I deal with photographers in their 50s/60s weakly. They all love their phones and hate the menu screen on their Canon/Nikon/Sony. You set it up the way you like it and hope to never need to touch it again. Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare.
  - Eiriksmal 8y ago
    http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/images/80d/810_9029-top.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-vs-1d-x-vs-nikon-d5-comparison-28795/images/highres-nikon-d5-top-recropped_1454493020.jpg https://www.ephotozine.com/articles/canon-eos-1d-x-mark-ii-v... This might blow your mind, but professionally-oriented cameras all have dedicated buttons to toggle metering modes without looking away from the viewfinder.
    - StavrosK 8y ago
      The 5D has twice the functions on the button, even, since pressing the button and scrolling one wheel does one thing, and the other another. It's very handy. In comparison, I was trying to set bracketed exposure on my RX100 yesterday, and I still haven't managed to find the feature.
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      You should drop the condescending tone toward people who have more years of experience photographing professionally than you have of age. I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. Canons are not my cup of tea, but I can get by if needed to. Sonys, on the other hand, have amazing sensors and great glass, yet bury such important features under menus requiring pressing the Fn button while staring at the LCD, or something like it.
      - frankchn 8y ago
        > I can operate my Nikons blind folded and single handed. What's the issue, then? The Nikon shooting interface obviously works well for you, and I think that is far more important and used than changing daylight savings settings. > Time how long it takes you to find and change the Exif copywrite on your photos, daylight saving, or how to save JPGs in one card and RAWs in another. It’s a nightmare. I don't know enough about Nikon or Sony, but I use Canon and I know where all those settings are. Even if you want to search the web to find where they are, I don't think it is a big deal: most of those settings you listed I change once or twice a year. In any case, I think it is better than the settings app on my iPhone, where the General sub-menu contains everything from controlling Background App Refresh (Why not in individual app sub-menus?) to enabling iTunes Wi-Fi Sync (there is an iTunes and App Store sub-menu too).
        tambourine_man 8y ago
        As I said elsewhere in this thread, better Menu UI would be a side benefit. I’m craving for fast processor and powerful software on the back of a big sensor and glass.
  - FireBeyond 8y ago
    I'm trying to figure out the subset of people who are saving RAWs but relying on the camera's EXIF data, when Lightroom et al are perfectly capable of setting all the metadata right there. Get into the enthusiast / prosumer models and there's more buttons for a reason. I want to change metering on my 5D4? I press the metering hard button on the top of the camera.
  - StavrosK 8y ago
    On the 5D, press the metering button and turn the knob. About the rest, I've never timed it because I've never needed to do it. Lightroom does most for me, and even the card thing would be roughly a one-time thing. I don't know what a comparison between a 6" touch display on a phone and a 2" non-touch display on a camera is supposed to show, but the camera menu isn't that hard: press menu, scroll to the appropriate section, select menu item and change what you need. It's pretty much the same on phones as well.
  - arghwhat 8y ago
    On the other hand, all you can control on an iPhone with the stock app is spot metering following the focus point. The reason people dislike menus is that there's a lot of things to control. It's nice without it, right until you need to tweak something.
arghwhat 8y ago
I'm not really a photographer, but a software developer with gadget cravings causing me to have a few cameras of different brands. Canon's smartphone app is quite terrible (although this is a slam at smartphone UX, not camera UX), but I can't really see smartphone apps for cameras as anything other than a useless gimmick. However, that app has no relation to how it is to use a modern camera. Comparing the UI's of iOS, Sony's Android camera app, Sony's A6000 and Canon mirrorless/dslr, Canon's modern mirrorless UX is by far the best. Easiest to use, prettiest, etc. For everything an iPhone can do, Canon works exactly the same, but then Canon also does so much more. Focus point is by touch screen, and it's much more responsive than my phone. It also seems much smarter with regards to tracking. Important settings are in the HUD, rest in an quick menu one touch away. All of this is of course subjective and anecdotal, but I would by quite saddened to end up with smartphone-d cameras. I do not see it making any positive improvement.