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Really? A general purpose OS, to replace the firmware and physical controls honed over decades and used by professional photographers in all kinds of scenarios?

Really? A general purpose OS, to replace the firmware and physical controls honed over decades and used by professional photographers in all kinds of scenarios? You think that highly of smartphone makers? Would you want them to re-make the aircraft cockpit too?

Pangurbon 8y ago
Seems like you could embed camera firmware either in the sensor or in iOS/Android. Maybe not.
- jordache 8y ago
  the dude's talking about terrible software from camera makers, and want iOS or Android software to power his professional camera.
tambourine_man 8y ago
>A general purpose OS, to replace the firmware… Yes, please. And a kickass processor with crazy fast memory to go along with it. >and physical controls honed over decades and used by professional photographers in all kinds of scenarios? Not at all. We love knobs, rings and wheels with great distinguishable tactile feeling. A more intuitive settings menu would be a side benefit. Truly revolutionary would be to able to write first class software to a mature capable OS. What could the state of the art in demosaic, noise, latitude, color accuracy be with that kind of speed and tools?
- jordache 8y ago
  So in other words, you don't mind if your camera's battery drains mysteriously.. Let's get a battery discharge graph in there so you can debug the process that's killing the battery!
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    Does this happen to your phone? Mine is a supercomputer that fits my pocket with battery that lasts all day. I trust them to make something that can be at least 10X thicker and heavier to performer comparably.
    - jordache 8y ago
      I suspect you didn't mentally contrast the stringency of power management on a professional level camera vs Android, iOS devices. "Trust them". Lol.. go google battery drain, and see what these modern OS permits.. Last all day means nothing in the context of what you brought up.
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        Hahah, that's funy. The cell phone is potentially the perfect battery drainer. Constantly screaming electromagnetic radiation in lot of frequencies, including through that huge screen, console level multicore CPU/GPU… and yet, they manage. I don't follow Android's ecosystem much, but battery usage on iOS is pretty restricted and very much under control. It can be done.
- frankchn 8y ago
  > What could the state of the art in demosaic, noise, latitude, color accuracy be with that kind of speed and tools? Do you shoot JPEGs exclusively? I shoot RAW, so the only thing I care about post image capture is being able to preview my photos, show a histogram, zoom in to check for focus accuracy and delete images. Everything else I can do on my desktop, which will always be much more capable than whatever I can put on-device.
  - tambourine_man 8y ago
    Almost exclusively RAW, but sometime shot both at the same time. But even RAW is not as “unbaked” as you might imagine. Specially in higher ISO
    - frankchn 8y ago
      Sure, but that is mainly noise reduction and some dead/hot pixel mapping isn't it, and some manufacturers (Sony) do more of that than others (Canon/Nikon). Demosaicing, histogram adjustments, and the final render to JPEG is still done on my PC when I shoot RAW. In other words, what improvements do you think camera manufacturers can add to the post-capture RAW workflow if we had a faster processor/better software? (Of course, in pre-capture, there is always room for more improvements to metering and autofocus, but camera manufacturers know this and are constantly making adjustments and improvements each generation.)
      - tambourine_man 8y ago
        Better signal processing, amplification, read noise and probably lot more that I can’t even imagine. And of course, all the stuff during capture you mentioned could be a lot better too. Picture being a camera engineer and suddenly have 10X more speed and a decent platform to work with. 32bit multiple exposure RAW in a single click, who knows.
        frankchn 8y ago
        > Better signal processing, amplification, read noise and probably lot more that I can’t even imagine. Yeah, I get that, but I don't think there is an improvement here by sticking a modern smartphone CPU and OS into a camera. Making improvements to those metrics ultimately require newer sensors with lower read noise and better on-chip ADCs. The camera manufacturers can't do 24-bit RAWs @ 20fps when the sensor only outputs 12-bits @ 10 fps. If we are doing multiple exposures, then as you know, cameras already have exposure bracketing, and I can do the rest in my PC.

Pangurbon 8y ago

Seems like you could embed camera firmware either in the sensor or in iOS/Android. Maybe not.

jordache 8y ago
the dude's talking about terrible software from camera makers, and want iOS or Android software to power his professional camera.

tambourine_man 8y ago

>A general purpose OS, to replace the firmware… Yes, please. And a kickass processor with crazy fast memory to go along with it. >and physical controls honed over decades and used by professional photographers in all kinds of scenarios? Not at all. We love knobs, rings and wheels with great distinguishable tactile feeling. A more intuitive settings menu would be a side benefit. Truly revolutionary would be to able to write first class software to a mature capable OS. What could the state of the art in demosaic, noise, latitude, color accuracy be with that kind of speed and tools?

jordache 8y ago
So in other words, you don't mind if your camera's battery drains mysteriously.. Let's get a battery discharge graph in there so you can debug the process that's killing the battery!
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  Does this happen to your phone? Mine is a supercomputer that fits my pocket with battery that lasts all day. I trust them to make something that can be at least 10X thicker and heavier to performer comparably.
  - jordache 8y ago
    I suspect you didn't mentally contrast the stringency of power management on a professional level camera vs Android, iOS devices. "Trust them". Lol.. go google battery drain, and see what these modern OS permits.. Last all day means nothing in the context of what you brought up.
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      Hahah, that's funy. The cell phone is potentially the perfect battery drainer. Constantly screaming electromagnetic radiation in lot of frequencies, including through that huge screen, console level multicore CPU/GPU… and yet, they manage. I don't follow Android's ecosystem much, but battery usage on iOS is pretty restricted and very much under control. It can be done.
frankchn 8y ago
> What could the state of the art in demosaic, noise, latitude, color accuracy be with that kind of speed and tools? Do you shoot JPEGs exclusively? I shoot RAW, so the only thing I care about post image capture is being able to preview my photos, show a histogram, zoom in to check for focus accuracy and delete images. Everything else I can do on my desktop, which will always be much more capable than whatever I can put on-device.
- tambourine_man 8y ago
  Almost exclusively RAW, but sometime shot both at the same time. But even RAW is not as “unbaked” as you might imagine. Specially in higher ISO
  - frankchn 8y ago
    Sure, but that is mainly noise reduction and some dead/hot pixel mapping isn't it, and some manufacturers (Sony) do more of that than others (Canon/Nikon). Demosaicing, histogram adjustments, and the final render to JPEG is still done on my PC when I shoot RAW. In other words, what improvements do you think camera manufacturers can add to the post-capture RAW workflow if we had a faster processor/better software? (Of course, in pre-capture, there is always room for more improvements to metering and autofocus, but camera manufacturers know this and are constantly making adjustments and improvements each generation.)
    - tambourine_man 8y ago
      Better signal processing, amplification, read noise and probably lot more that I can’t even imagine. And of course, all the stuff during capture you mentioned could be a lot better too. Picture being a camera engineer and suddenly have 10X more speed and a decent platform to work with. 32bit multiple exposure RAW in a single click, who knows.
      - frankchn 8y ago
        > Better signal processing, amplification, read noise and probably lot more that I can’t even imagine. Yeah, I get that, but I don't think there is an improvement here by sticking a modern smartphone CPU and OS into a camera. Making improvements to those metrics ultimately require newer sensors with lower read noise and better on-chip ADCs. The camera manufacturers can't do 24-bit RAWs @ 20fps when the sensor only outputs 12-bits @ 10 fps. If we are doing multiple exposures, then as you know, cameras already have exposure bracketing, and I can do the rest in my PC.