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I tend to look at a candidate's work history. If they've worked at least 10 years, as a coder - it's VERY unlikely that they're a complete liar. Especially if

I tend to look at a candidate's work history. If they've worked at least 10 years, as a coder - it's VERY unlikely that they're a complete liar. Especially if you can call former co-workers, or look at code samples they have online on a personal github, or look at their post history on stackoverflow, or things like that. Even a technical description of prior projects - is a really good indicator of whether they're competent. Puzzle solving - on the other hand, bears little resemblance to actual job requirements in the real world. It's honestly a dumb way to vet candidates. Would I like to see if a candidate, out of a pack of 5 or so potentially equal candidates, has a better approach to creative problem solving? You bet. But I'm more interested in their inter-personal skills, communication skills, and their instincts towards the ethical challenges we face as engineers. (like: when things go south - and blame starts flying). Who do I want on my team? That's the most important question.

face_mcgace 8y ago
One time I sat down with a potential hire and went over a trivial PR. Nothing hard just some code to look at on GitHub to provide a familiar environment. Why? To use it as a way to just look at our tech, get completely off track, and go down the tech rabbit hole. Good devs get really excited and talk about what they're using, what libraries they like, what they'd like to work with, etc. Best hire I've ever made.
elizabeth_olu 8y ago
www.elizabethblog.com.ng
WilliamEdward 8y ago
"Puzzle solving" is a nice way to dumb down the importance of good software engineering vs good coding skills. This is especially important at the big 4 or 5. They don't really, truly care what languages you know or what stack you know. They will give you the environment to use whatever you want. What they need is someone who is good at solving problems, which ties into your comment about dealing with bad situations. This is something startups eventually adopt once they mature past needing a web developer to just throw together a website for them, and on to someone who is more flexible and loyal. So please don't reduce the importance of good engineering down to "puzzles". They are a good indicator of someone who has all those qualities you describe. And i wouldn't limit anyone to the big 5. If you believe Google's interview is pure memorisation and no problem solving, don't interview with them. My point is a good interview knows the importance of problem solving, whether solved correctly or not, is about how you solve the problem, and so they design their interviews thusly. That's my point which is contrary to the common sentiment here that "puzzle" interviews are a waste of time.. This is especially true when really wealthy companies will teach you the technologies you need to learn. You simply can't teach a good problem solving skillset, though.
- learc83 8y ago
  Good engineering is important. But solving a problem on a whiteboard isn't "good engineering". The ability to solve whiteboard puzzles in a time boxed adversarial setting, is nothing at all like solving large complex engineering problems through "good engineering" practices. I know plenty of capital E Engineers. None of them have whiteboard interviews. They are expected to solve problems, but none of them are expected to draw schematics for a bridge while someone watches over their shoulders. No other non-performance based industry has this kind of weird hazing ritual. Whiteboard interviews are nothing more than the current fad--they definitely aren't necessary requirements to hire "good engineers".
  - musicale 8y ago
    ^this. Somehow companies got confused into thinking that something between an algorithms test and an ICPC contest on a whiteboard was a sensible way to interview people. Google takes a similar approach with Code Jam (a recruiter contacted me because of it apparently.) At least they don't make you do Rubik's cubes anymore.
  - WilliamEdward 8y ago
    Do you think the school system also isn't a good way to vet people, then? Since exams are basically just "whiteboard interviews".
    - learc83 8y ago
      1. Unless you are in a performing arts program, exams aren't really anything like whiteboard interviews. They are much more limited in scope. You generally have more time. There's no one watching your every step. You don't have to talk while solving a problem. They tend to be written by people with at least some formal training in pedagogy. They don't tend to be written and administered by 24 year olds who are trying to prove how smart they are. Your job while in school is to study for exams, so you tend to have more time to do so. 2. This part is more important. School is about a lot more than exams. Projects were usually about 50% of the grade in CS classes. If you made it through 4 years of the CS program I went through, you know how to program, or you paid someone to go for you for all 4 years. So yeah I'd take a B average from my school as proof that you know how to program. But I wouldn't make it a requirement.

face_mcgace 8y ago

One time I sat down with a potential hire and went over a trivial PR. Nothing hard just some code to look at on GitHub to provide a familiar environment. Why? To use it as a way to just look at our tech, get completely off track, and go down the tech rabbit hole. Good devs get really excited and talk about what they're using, what libraries they like, what they'd like to work with, etc. Best hire I've ever made.

elizabeth_olu 8y ago

www.elizabethblog.com.ng

WilliamEdward 8y ago

"Puzzle solving" is a nice way to dumb down the importance of good software engineering vs good coding skills. This is especially important at the big 4 or 5. They don't really, truly care what languages you know or what stack you know. They will give you the environment to use whatever you want. What they need is someone who is good at solving problems, which ties into your comment about dealing with bad situations. This is something startups eventually adopt once they mature past needing a web developer to just throw together a website for them, and on to someone who is more flexible and loyal. So please don't reduce the importance of good engineering down to "puzzles". They are a good indicator of someone who has all those qualities you describe. And i wouldn't limit anyone to the big 5. If you believe Google's interview is pure memorisation and no problem solving, don't interview with them. My point is a good interview knows the importance of problem solving, whether solved correctly or not, is about how you solve the problem, and so they design their interviews thusly. That's my point which is contrary to the common sentiment here that "puzzle" interviews are a waste of time.. This is especially true when really wealthy companies will teach you the technologies you need to learn. You simply can't teach a good problem solving skillset, though.

learc83 8y ago
Good engineering is important. But solving a problem on a whiteboard isn't "good engineering". The ability to solve whiteboard puzzles in a time boxed adversarial setting, is nothing at all like solving large complex engineering problems through "good engineering" practices. I know plenty of capital E Engineers. None of them have whiteboard interviews. They are expected to solve problems, but none of them are expected to draw schematics for a bridge while someone watches over their shoulders. No other non-performance based industry has this kind of weird hazing ritual. Whiteboard interviews are nothing more than the current fad--they definitely aren't necessary requirements to hire "good engineers".
- musicale 8y ago
  ^this. Somehow companies got confused into thinking that something between an algorithms test and an ICPC contest on a whiteboard was a sensible way to interview people. Google takes a similar approach with Code Jam (a recruiter contacted me because of it apparently.) At least they don't make you do Rubik's cubes anymore.
- WilliamEdward 8y ago
  Do you think the school system also isn't a good way to vet people, then? Since exams are basically just "whiteboard interviews".
  - learc83 8y ago
    1. Unless you are in a performing arts program, exams aren't really anything like whiteboard interviews. They are much more limited in scope. You generally have more time. There's no one watching your every step. You don't have to talk while solving a problem. They tend to be written by people with at least some formal training in pedagogy. They don't tend to be written and administered by 24 year olds who are trying to prove how smart they are. Your job while in school is to study for exams, so you tend to have more time to do so. 2. This part is more important. School is about a lot more than exams. Projects were usually about 50% of the grade in CS classes. If you made it through 4 years of the CS program I went through, you know how to program, or you paid someone to go for you for all 4 years. So yeah I'd take a B average from my school as proof that you know how to program. But I wouldn't make it a requirement.