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That video, with the pre- and post- differences is pretty remarkable. Here's my stupid question of the day: given that this color-grading of RAW streams makes

by pen2l 8y ago

That video, with the pre- and post- differences is pretty remarkable. Here's my stupid question of the day: given that this color-grading of RAW streams makes _SUCH_ a massive difference... why don't companies like Conan and Sony just ship it with the product? Why do their cameras fall short of having something like Magic Lantern? In the end it gives the customer what they want... surely Sony/Canon are capable of producing something like this, so why not produce it?

Franciscouzo 8y ago
Most probably because it would compete with the Canon EOS product line.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- Godel_unicode 8y ago
  The full name of the 5d mark II is Canon EOS 5d mark II.
  - Franciscouzo 8y ago
    I meant the cinema EOS line...
mjlee 8y ago
I wonder if it has anything to do with distinguishing a video camera from a stills camera for tax purposes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-to-hit-some-digital-cameras-with-import-duty-idUKL1777271820070717 https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-t...
knolan 8y ago
I wonder if there are thermal issues that may affect the life of the sensor? But it’s mostly a business decision I guess.
- zepearl 8y ago
  Maybe a mix of multiple factors including "business"? - e.g. more cost effective to use the same HW on multiple devices but limiting their capabilities through SW by segment => total cost covered by many sold med-end devices AND few high-end devices? - and/or maybe what "magic lantern" allows to do wasn't certified to work on 100% of the HW. - and/or "magic lantern" did some own SW development, which would mean "additional costs" if done by a company (and here is where open source hits one of its targets?). Meaning that maybe at a certain point Canon said "ok, we've spent all our budget for this price class of camera vs. the expected earnings, so that's it". Cheers
dharma1 8y ago
They do, but on their higher end video cameras (Sony FS range, Canon C200). They could easily do it on normal dSLR's but have chosen not to. However, you can get very good cinema cameras for not very much money from Blackmagic that shoot raw video. I have both their 1080p pocket and 4k pocket cinema camera, they are awesome. Magic lantern is an amazing project too, but reverse engineering the firmware is a lot of effort and never quite bug free
anigbrowl 8y ago
They do...on different models, and after they've had the opportunity to assess market demand. Naturally they would prefer people buy tools made for the job than cheap out with modifiers, but on the other hand they've taken a hands-off approach to Magic Lantern rather than complain about their intellectual property being infringed, so I'm OK with that. It's not just the firmware that makes the difference between a DSLR and a pro video one, but ergonomics and hardware connectivity. Videographers tend to be more demanding on technical support issues too IME.
ipsum2 8y ago
Price differentiation. Canon sells video cameras that shoot raw, they're 10x the price of a DSLR. (see the canon eos c700 ff, $33,000). They can charge this much, because they're competing with high end cinema cameras that are used to shoot blockbluster films, such as the Arri Alexa LF ($100,000) or Red Monstro 8k VV ($79,500). Some video camera manufacturers have started offering raw at lower price points. The Blackmagic Camera Pocket Cinema 4k shoots 4k raw 60fps for only $1,300. Sensor size micro 4/3s, which is a lot smaller than a full frame sensor that the 5dmk3 has.
- bredren 8y ago
  Quick plug for the BlackMagic eGPU. I had not heard of Blackmagic before, because I don't do film work. But Apple partnered with them on a pair of eGPUs and I really dig the base one. It is silent, creates a useful dongle-free set of ports and obviously improves macOS graphic responsiveness when working with 4k external monitor from the 2018 MacBOok Air.
timClicks 8y ago
Market differentiation/segmentation. This happens in lots of software-supported technology products, the cheaper version is often the same software as the more expensive version - but with a few flags switched to off.
imagetic 8y ago
Canon still reserves a lot of space for their C line cameras. They have been very hesitant to let their SLR / Mirrorless market creep into that realm. The 5d revolutionized video production, but they've always crippled their photography cameras just enough to matter to professionals.
creato 8y ago
I'd be curious to hear from the parent of your post what the user experience is like, especially after using it for a long time. Raw video is a huge amount of data. The camera's storage and buffering system might work for short clips, but it might also be a real pain in the ass to use.
StavrosK 8y ago
Feature gating/price differentiation. You know what's ridiculous? Their shutter timer doesn't go above 30 seconds on any of their cameras. Magic Lantern obviously has no problem giving you a UI to adjust the timer for whatever value you want, and it's worth it just for that. Canon want you to buy the timer/wired trigger peripheral.

by pen2l 8y ago

Franciscouzo 8y ago

Most probably because it would compete with the Canon EOS product line.

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
Godel_unicode 8y ago
The full name of the 5d mark II is Canon EOS 5d mark II.
- Franciscouzo 8y ago
  I meant the cinema EOS line...

mjlee 8y ago

I wonder if it has anything to do with distinguishing a video camera from a stills camera for tax purposes: https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-to-hit-some-digital-cameras-with-import-duty-idUKL1777271820070717 https://uk.reuters.com/article/tech-eu-cameras-trade-dc/eu-t...

knolan 8y ago

I wonder if there are thermal issues that may affect the life of the sensor? But it’s mostly a business decision I guess.

zepearl 8y ago
Maybe a mix of multiple factors including "business"? - e.g. more cost effective to use the same HW on multiple devices but limiting their capabilities through SW by segment => total cost covered by many sold med-end devices AND few high-end devices? - and/or maybe what "magic lantern" allows to do wasn't certified to work on 100% of the HW. - and/or "magic lantern" did some own SW development, which would mean "additional costs" if done by a company (and here is where open source hits one of its targets?). Meaning that maybe at a certain point Canon said "ok, we've spent all our budget for this price class of camera vs. the expected earnings, so that's it". Cheers

dharma1 8y ago

They do, but on their higher end video cameras (Sony FS range, Canon C200). They could easily do it on normal dSLR's but have chosen not to. However, you can get very good cinema cameras for not very much money from Blackmagic that shoot raw video. I have both their 1080p pocket and 4k pocket cinema camera, they are awesome. Magic lantern is an amazing project too, but reverse engineering the firmware is a lot of effort and never quite bug free

anigbrowl 8y ago

They do...on different models, and after they've had the opportunity to assess market demand. Naturally they would prefer people buy tools made for the job than cheap out with modifiers, but on the other hand they've taken a hands-off approach to Magic Lantern rather than complain about their intellectual property being infringed, so I'm OK with that. It's not just the firmware that makes the difference between a DSLR and a pro video one, but ergonomics and hardware connectivity. Videographers tend to be more demanding on technical support issues too IME.

ipsum2 8y ago

Price differentiation. Canon sells video cameras that shoot raw, they're 10x the price of a DSLR. (see the canon eos c700 ff, $33,000). They can charge this much, because they're competing with high end cinema cameras that are used to shoot blockbluster films, such as the Arri Alexa LF ($100,000) or Red Monstro 8k VV ($79,500). Some video camera manufacturers have started offering raw at lower price points. The Blackmagic Camera Pocket Cinema 4k shoots 4k raw 60fps for only $1,300. Sensor size micro 4/3s, which is a lot smaller than a full frame sensor that the 5dmk3 has.

bredren 8y ago
Quick plug for the BlackMagic eGPU. I had not heard of Blackmagic before, because I don't do film work. But Apple partnered with them on a pair of eGPUs and I really dig the base one. It is silent, creates a useful dongle-free set of ports and obviously improves macOS graphic responsiveness when working with 4k external monitor from the 2018 MacBOok Air.

timClicks 8y ago

Market differentiation/segmentation. This happens in lots of software-supported technology products, the cheaper version is often the same software as the more expensive version - but with a few flags switched to off.

imagetic 8y ago

Canon still reserves a lot of space for their C line cameras. They have been very hesitant to let their SLR / Mirrorless market creep into that realm. The 5d revolutionized video production, but they've always crippled their photography cameras just enough to matter to professionals.

creato 8y ago

I'd be curious to hear from the parent of your post what the user experience is like, especially after using it for a long time. Raw video is a huge amount of data. The camera's storage and buffering system might work for short clips, but it might also be a real pain in the ass to use.

StavrosK 8y ago

Feature gating/price differentiation. You know what's ridiculous? Their shutter timer doesn't go above 30 seconds on any of their cameras. Magic Lantern obviously has no problem giving you a UI to adjust the timer for whatever value you want, and it's worth it just for that. Canon want you to buy the timer/wired trigger peripheral.