4 ms·

I don't doubt that there absolutely exists prejudices in this case but I also wonder how many will also be created by one self in that situation just because ho

by cc81 8y ago

I don't doubt that there absolutely exists prejudices in this case but I also wonder how many will also be created by one self in that situation just because how the human mind works. I used to have quite a lot of acne and it really got to my head. It of course did affect how people treated me, especially girls, because acne is not very attractive however after a while I probably read into things way more than I should. That people who were treating me the way they normally would or just happened to treat me badly because they had a bad day did treat me that way because of my acne. Being the lone black guy in a research institution in a country like the US with that kind of history must be easy to start falling down that hole. Especially if there also exists people who are prejudiced or racist and expresses that as well.

lotaezenwa 8y ago
So you believe your experience with acne could be a lot like people experiencing racism?
- barberousse 8y ago
  I cannot believe you got downvoted into grey text already despite how obviously terrible this person's comparison is. Not to mention the insinuation that the experience of racism may just be the spotlight effect. Literally the most general and ubiquitous claim you see made whenever topics around racial experience come up.
- rudedogg 8y ago
  I feel like your comment is disingenuous. He's saying that we all feel slighted, and perhaps cases where minorities feel slighted, is just that. A case mentioned from the article that gave me this vibe: > “A couple of them were at a board writing something,” he recalled. “I went over and asked, ‘What are you guys working on?’” > “We’re too far in to catch you up,” he said he was told. I know personally, I used to feel very "in tune" to how people perceived me. I read a book on body language when I was younger, and would constantly analyze how people moved ("head tilted, they think this is interesting", "arms crossed, they're defensive"), etc. It went further than that - analyzing language etc. But, there were some cases were I was certain someone was being an asshole to me - but I learned I was wrong. Now I'm much more restrictive in how I pass judgement on someone. I hope others give me that benefit, because I constantly find myself thinking of how something I said in conversation could be misunderstood, etc. Communication is hard.
  - tropo 8y ago
    Yep, and thinking about that some more, I have to wonder if he might be suffering from early/mild signs of schizophrenia. The assumption of racism is unjustified paranoia. When schizophrenia starts, it is common to assume that people's actions are in some way plotting against you. A person does something for a reason unrelated to you (example: bumps you accidentally), and you assume it was intentional. I recall that there is even an increased chance of illness for math experts. Famously, it hit John Nash. So his interpretation of other people's actions may be a sign that he is not well.
- cc81 8y ago
  I believe we all view the world through our own filter with our own interpretations and I believe that just because that we perceive something does not make it objectively right. It does not matter if it is a big thing like racism or something small like how you look. It is also pretty disingenuous to immediately go to accusing me of saying that my experiences is as bad as racism, I never claimed that. Racism as a concept is big and it is obviously something that affects people deeply but it does not have a monopoly when it comes to suffering either. One young white middle class boy in my school was bullied so badly that one night he hung himself from a soccer goal. I did not know him or the people who bullied him but I suspect that the things he was bullied for was not worse than racism as a whole but I also suspect what he experienced is far worse than any hurt any racism this mathematician has experienced.
- tptacek 8y ago
  The comment you're replying to is attempting to empathize with the subject of this NYT profile, and to build up a mental framework for why their lived experience might resonate with experiences of their own. You have to want the comment to be dismissive to read it that way. This thread is full of skeptical comments claiming certainty that not only is there good reason there aren't many black mathematicians, but also that this particular mathematician probably got his position through tokenism. Those comments are worth the kind of snark you mustered. This one wasn't. I don't think acne is a very good facsimile of racism, and the comment you're replying to didn't say that it was either, so you're doubly out of line here, by hammering on an argument they didn't even make. There are probably a lot of ways in which the commenter's experience doesn't come close to fully capturing what it's like for a person of color to fight one's way through the ranks of a profession that is overwhelmingly "white". It'd be useful to hear some of those ways! That would have been a productive response.

by cc81 8y ago

lotaezenwa 8y ago

So you believe your experience with acne could be a lot like people experiencing racism?

barberousse 8y ago
I cannot believe you got downvoted into grey text already despite how obviously terrible this person's comparison is. Not to mention the insinuation that the experience of racism may just be the spotlight effect. Literally the most general and ubiquitous claim you see made whenever topics around racial experience come up.
rudedogg 8y ago
I feel like your comment is disingenuous. He's saying that we all feel slighted, and perhaps cases where minorities feel slighted, is just that. A case mentioned from the article that gave me this vibe: > “A couple of them were at a board writing something,” he recalled. “I went over and asked, ‘What are you guys working on?’” > “We’re too far in to catch you up,” he said he was told. I know personally, I used to feel very "in tune" to how people perceived me. I read a book on body language when I was younger, and would constantly analyze how people moved ("head tilted, they think this is interesting", "arms crossed, they're defensive"), etc. It went further than that - analyzing language etc. But, there were some cases were I was certain someone was being an asshole to me - but I learned I was wrong. Now I'm much more restrictive in how I pass judgement on someone. I hope others give me that benefit, because I constantly find myself thinking of how something I said in conversation could be misunderstood, etc. Communication is hard.
- tropo 8y ago
  Yep, and thinking about that some more, I have to wonder if he might be suffering from early/mild signs of schizophrenia. The assumption of racism is unjustified paranoia. When schizophrenia starts, it is common to assume that people's actions are in some way plotting against you. A person does something for a reason unrelated to you (example: bumps you accidentally), and you assume it was intentional. I recall that there is even an increased chance of illness for math experts. Famously, it hit John Nash. So his interpretation of other people's actions may be a sign that he is not well.
cc81 8y ago
I believe we all view the world through our own filter with our own interpretations and I believe that just because that we perceive something does not make it objectively right. It does not matter if it is a big thing like racism or something small like how you look. It is also pretty disingenuous to immediately go to accusing me of saying that my experiences is as bad as racism, I never claimed that. Racism as a concept is big and it is obviously something that affects people deeply but it does not have a monopoly when it comes to suffering either. One young white middle class boy in my school was bullied so badly that one night he hung himself from a soccer goal. I did not know him or the people who bullied him but I suspect that the things he was bullied for was not worse than racism as a whole but I also suspect what he experienced is far worse than any hurt any racism this mathematician has experienced.
tptacek 8y ago
The comment you're replying to is attempting to empathize with the subject of this NYT profile, and to build up a mental framework for why their lived experience might resonate with experiences of their own. You have to want the comment to be dismissive to read it that way. This thread is full of skeptical comments claiming certainty that not only is there good reason there aren't many black mathematicians, but also that this particular mathematician probably got his position through tokenism. Those comments are worth the kind of snark you mustered. This one wasn't. I don't think acne is a very good facsimile of racism, and the comment you're replying to didn't say that it was either, so you're doubly out of line here, by hammering on an argument they didn't even make. There are probably a lot of ways in which the commenter's experience doesn't come close to fully capturing what it's like for a person of color to fight one's way through the ranks of a profession that is overwhelmingly "white". It'd be useful to hear some of those ways! That would have been a productive response.