4 ms·

This mathematician is not stupid. I would be inclined to believe he understands statistics/anecdotes/academia better than you reading this right now. We only g

This mathematician is not stupid. I would be inclined to believe he understands statistics/anecdotes/academia better than you reading this right now. We only get a small glimpse into the intricacies of his world view and life, and this is what he has chosen to share. This is the story he is telling. Ask yourself why someone in this position would tell this story based on years of lived experience. Do you believe him? Or do you believe keyboard warriors in some of the comments under this article diminishing his perspective with "but what about"-ism and the like? I am black and studied math in school. The 'leaky pipeline' exists to some extent. Racist people exist even if you, reading this, are not racist.

python_gt_r 8y ago
Also by definition, judgement biases underlying racism are common across people. There's no more racism in whites or republicans, rationalization is different. Splitting the world in racist and no racist is simplistic and poor argumentation.
- lotaezenwa 8y ago
  > by definition judgement[sic] biases underlying racism are common across people 0) We never agreed on the definition of "judgment biases", so please do not use the phrase "by definition". Your definition differs from mine.
  - python_gt_r 8y ago
    A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Some people call it racism, specially if it's pointing at white people. I call it your life your choice.
    - helen___keller 8y ago
      >A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Are you making this claim or is there evidence that supports it? Would be interested to see a study on that
      - deytempo 8y ago
        How is it possible for anything to emerge from nature which is not natural? So far there is little evidence that anything humans do is above just a bunch of natural responses to external stimuli. However just because something is natural does not make it beneficial or desirable
        helen___keller 8y ago
        I don't know how this relates to my comment, sorry. I'm asking if the guy above me had seen evidence that substantiates his claim that there's a significant preference to people dating within their own race
      - belorn 8y ago
        While I can not bring up the research paper from memory, there is such evidence but it more funnier than that. Going directly by vague recollection of the lecture, there is a bias towards X distances of relativeness, something like 3rd or 4th cousin, where you get a statistical bias in a population. You also get this in animal studies. If I recall correctly it was part of when they talked about gene selection theory, and also (very vaguely recalled) a short aside into game theory for maximized gene transmission with minimal risk for genetic errors. Technically this has nothing to do with racial and ethnic groups, but as an outcome it correlates. (Edit: Remembering an other detail. The human study was a olfaction test where participants felt more attracted to the sweat of said relativeness. It add to the (in my view) comical aspect of it all).
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
williamstein 8y ago
I just want to support your comment -- I've known "this mathematician" (Edray Goins) personally for two decades, work on similar mathematics to him, and I wrote research letters supporting his tenure and promotion at Purdue. He is definitely NOT stupid, his research is extremely interesting, and his ability to get undergraduates involved in research level mathematics is outstanding. People do racist things, and this is overall very self-destructive for our communities; it helps very much that people like Edray have a voice.
AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
May I ask you a question? Not for the sake of argument or anything - I'm genuinely curious. Yes, racist people exist. No doubt here. As do exist many other nasties: dishonest salesmen, stupid teachers, dumb police officers, incompetent doctors - you name it. They make the headlines, but I firmly believe there's not that many of them and most of people are fully adequate and reasonable. From the article it sounds like there's a full faculty of racist bigots who see maintaining white supremacy as their primary goal. He's universally hated just for the color of his skin and there are few to no people who treat him as equal. Is it really that bad?
- tptacek 8y ago
  There is no place in this NYT profile where Goins makes any claim about a "full faculty of racist bigots who see maintaining white supremacy as their primary goal", so that's not a reasonable question to ask.
  - AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
    Looks like you've dismissed my question on technicality. I have to admit this is not exactly the answer I was looking for.
    - tptacek 8y ago
      Not that it matters, but just because my nerd brain won't let this go until I type this out: refuting the core premise of your question isn't a "technicality". The correct answer to "is it really that bad", in this case, is "NaN fssst bzzrt pop!"
- archagon 8y ago
  Most racism is not that overt, or even conscious. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most people who behaved in a racist manner didn't view themselves as racist in the slightest.

python_gt_r 8y ago

Also by definition, judgement biases underlying racism are common across people. There's no more racism in whites or republicans, rationalization is different. Splitting the world in racist and no racist is simplistic and poor argumentation.

lotaezenwa 8y ago
> by definition judgement[sic] biases underlying racism are common across people 0) We never agreed on the definition of "judgment biases", so please do not use the phrase "by definition". Your definition differs from mine.
- python_gt_r 8y ago
  A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Some people call it racism, specially if it's pointing at white people. I call it your life your choice.
  - helen___keller 8y ago
    >A very high percent of any race dates only inside their racial/ethnic group. And so on. It's natural preferences. Are you making this claim or is there evidence that supports it? Would be interested to see a study on that
    - deytempo 8y ago
      How is it possible for anything to emerge from nature which is not natural? So far there is little evidence that anything humans do is above just a bunch of natural responses to external stimuli. However just because something is natural does not make it beneficial or desirable
      - helen___keller 8y ago
        I don't know how this relates to my comment, sorry. I'm asking if the guy above me had seen evidence that substantiates his claim that there's a significant preference to people dating within their own race
    - belorn 8y ago
      While I can not bring up the research paper from memory, there is such evidence but it more funnier than that. Going directly by vague recollection of the lecture, there is a bias towards X distances of relativeness, something like 3rd or 4th cousin, where you get a statistical bias in a population. You also get this in animal studies. If I recall correctly it was part of when they talked about gene selection theory, and also (very vaguely recalled) a short aside into game theory for maximized gene transmission with minimal risk for genetic errors. Technically this has nothing to do with racial and ethnic groups, but as an outcome it correlates. (Edit: Remembering an other detail. The human study was a olfaction test where participants felt more attracted to the sweat of said relativeness. It add to the (in my view) comical aspect of it all).
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

williamstein 8y ago

I just want to support your comment -- I've known "this mathematician" (Edray Goins) personally for two decades, work on similar mathematics to him, and I wrote research letters supporting his tenure and promotion at Purdue. He is definitely NOT stupid, his research is extremely interesting, and his ability to get undergraduates involved in research level mathematics is outstanding. People do racist things, and this is overall very self-destructive for our communities; it helps very much that people like Edray have a voice.

AlexTWithBeard 8y ago

May I ask you a question? Not for the sake of argument or anything - I'm genuinely curious. Yes, racist people exist. No doubt here. As do exist many other nasties: dishonest salesmen, stupid teachers, dumb police officers, incompetent doctors - you name it. They make the headlines, but I firmly believe there's not that many of them and most of people are fully adequate and reasonable. From the article it sounds like there's a full faculty of racist bigots who see maintaining white supremacy as their primary goal. He's universally hated just for the color of his skin and there are few to no people who treat him as equal. Is it really that bad?

tptacek 8y ago
There is no place in this NYT profile where Goins makes any claim about a "full faculty of racist bigots who see maintaining white supremacy as their primary goal", so that's not a reasonable question to ask.
- AlexTWithBeard 8y ago
  Looks like you've dismissed my question on technicality. I have to admit this is not exactly the answer I was looking for.
  - tptacek 8y ago
    Not that it matters, but just because my nerd brain won't let this go until I type this out: refuting the core premise of your question isn't a "technicality". The correct answer to "is it really that bad", in this case, is "NaN fssst bzzrt pop!"
archagon 8y ago
Most racism is not that overt, or even conscious. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if most people who behaved in a racist manner didn't view themselves as racist in the slightest.