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I don't think diversity of skin color and gender will solve this problem in its entirety too. People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be thi

I don't think diversity of skin color and gender will solve this problem in its entirety too. People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be this kind of self-centered egotist. People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be excellent developers who are focused outwards, on developing their teammates and building things well. Diversity is part of the picture, yes, but it's no instant win, either.

iheartpotatoes 8y ago
Why did you feel the need to state the obvious? This is the kind of toxic nonsense that comes up every time someone mentions diversity. Its the status-quo "notallmen" argument again and again and again. Please, assume just for a minute that we aren't all idiots. Of -course- everyone has the capacity to be an idiot, but your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling.
- lainga 8y ago
  As much as I am tempted to, I don't think it's right to equate diversity of appearance and diversity of experience, either. One is just a proxy for the other.
- finnthehuman 8y ago
  >Why did you feel the need to state the obvious? The implicit -- wait, no -- the explicit argument of your grandparent post is that all white men are the same. Of course people are going to push back on that.
- nilkn 8y ago
  To be honest, I found myself slightly offended at your original comment, but I decided not to say anything since I agreed with the overall point you were trying to make. This response makes me feel like I have to say something though. Sometimes the person calling everything else toxic is actually a source of toxicity. Frankly, as a white guy who has been known to wear hoodies, I don't like being grouped in with toxic assholes just because of my appearance, and I think you could convey your point better by learning to phrase it in a more respectful way. Instead of trying to call out an entire group of people based on gender and skin color, just point out that it's hard for toxicity to survive when surrounded by a large variety of viewpoints and backgrounds.
  - hitekker 8y ago
    As always, political extremism is a horseshoe. <Radical> assert their <object of worship> is the end-all-be-all, someone politely points out exceptions to <object of worship>, <Radical> begins screeching. Mindlessness mixed with insecurity is a toxic brew.
- Fellshard 8y ago
  I'm responding to the argument you made without attacking you for it. I would only hope you have the courtesy to do the same. Dropping it at that.
- pault 8y ago
  Where did you get that the GP was highly defensive? I didn't read that at all. TBH I also thought it was strange that the proposed solution to certain toxic personalities was to hire different genders and races, which seems like a non sequitur to me.
  - 0815test 8y ago
    Personality does correlate with gender, albeit very weakly. And differences in 'race' correlate with different social/cultural contexts to an extent that might have some effect as well - indeed, 'race' is itself a social construct that largely reflects differences in culture.
- seatdrummer 8y ago
  You are really on the offensive here. The concerns you've raised here remind me of a time when I let news and social media pull me into that disgusting culture war on oppression, equality, collectivism, and individuality. I still have my stance but I've found that people that get sucked in, on both sides, will get hypersensitive about detecting their opposition, and then they project all of the ideas they dislike the most onto the person in real life who exhibits a hint of it. You might find that you are trying to find things to be angry about. You might feel very strongly that masculinity is toxic but you don't really have any examples in your life except for the two and a half times you got cat called. The "gamers" that hate minorities and women might be on the forefront of your mind, but only because you spend too much time consuming narratives online. Genuinely how many people would be concerned about toxic masculinity if the internet didn't exist. How many people would be concerned about the culture war at all if outrage couldn't be shared. As much as you might like to blame it on a particular skin color or gender, your happiness and peace of mind is your responsibility. If you are frustrated, angry, or sad about gamers, the gamers aren't the problem, you are losing control of your mind.
- threatofrain 8y ago
  The interesting part of this pushback isn't that there's between-individual variability with different populations, but that "white guy with stickers on his laptop", and the realm of predictive strategies that implies, is a very poor indicator of intellectual broadness or diversity. But do you really care, seeing as to how you've already furthered a theory of someone else being either emotionally hostile or defensive? And do you really not see the obviousness of how a certain situation plays out, of someone using white guy with stickers on laptop as a symbol for toxicity? Or do you see the obviousness, and that's why you're playing the situation out this way?
- zestyping 8y ago
  > your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling. You just crossed the line from making this about the issue to making it personal. That's not okay.
deogeo 8y ago
> People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be this kind of self-centered egotist He didn't imply that women and non-whites can't be self-centered egotists, only that they're less so than white men. Despite the author of the article being Russian, a very different culture than the US.

iheartpotatoes 8y ago

Why did you feel the need to state the obvious? This is the kind of toxic nonsense that comes up every time someone mentions diversity. Its the status-quo "notallmen" argument again and again and again. Please, assume just for a minute that we aren't all idiots. Of -course- everyone has the capacity to be an idiot, but your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling.

lainga 8y ago
As much as I am tempted to, I don't think it's right to equate diversity of appearance and diversity of experience, either. One is just a proxy for the other.
finnthehuman 8y ago
>Why did you feel the need to state the obvious? The implicit -- wait, no -- the explicit argument of your grandparent post is that all white men are the same. Of course people are going to push back on that.
nilkn 8y ago
To be honest, I found myself slightly offended at your original comment, but I decided not to say anything since I agreed with the overall point you were trying to make. This response makes me feel like I have to say something though. Sometimes the person calling everything else toxic is actually a source of toxicity. Frankly, as a white guy who has been known to wear hoodies, I don't like being grouped in with toxic assholes just because of my appearance, and I think you could convey your point better by learning to phrase it in a more respectful way. Instead of trying to call out an entire group of people based on gender and skin color, just point out that it's hard for toxicity to survive when surrounded by a large variety of viewpoints and backgrounds.
- hitekker 8y ago
  As always, political extremism is a horseshoe. <Radical> assert their <object of worship> is the end-all-be-all, someone politely points out exceptions to <object of worship>, <Radical> begins screeching. Mindlessness mixed with insecurity is a toxic brew.
Fellshard 8y ago
I'm responding to the argument you made without attacking you for it. I would only hope you have the courtesy to do the same. Dropping it at that.
pault 8y ago
Where did you get that the GP was highly defensive? I didn't read that at all. TBH I also thought it was strange that the proposed solution to certain toxic personalities was to hire different genders and races, which seems like a non sequitur to me.
- 0815test 8y ago
  Personality does correlate with gender, albeit very weakly. And differences in 'race' correlate with different social/cultural contexts to an extent that might have some effect as well - indeed, 'race' is itself a social construct that largely reflects differences in culture.
seatdrummer 8y ago
You are really on the offensive here. The concerns you've raised here remind me of a time when I let news and social media pull me into that disgusting culture war on oppression, equality, collectivism, and individuality. I still have my stance but I've found that people that get sucked in, on both sides, will get hypersensitive about detecting their opposition, and then they project all of the ideas they dislike the most onto the person in real life who exhibits a hint of it. You might find that you are trying to find things to be angry about. You might feel very strongly that masculinity is toxic but you don't really have any examples in your life except for the two and a half times you got cat called. The "gamers" that hate minorities and women might be on the forefront of your mind, but only because you spend too much time consuming narratives online. Genuinely how many people would be concerned about toxic masculinity if the internet didn't exist. How many people would be concerned about the culture war at all if outrage couldn't be shared. As much as you might like to blame it on a particular skin color or gender, your happiness and peace of mind is your responsibility. If you are frustrated, angry, or sad about gamers, the gamers aren't the problem, you are losing control of your mind.
threatofrain 8y ago
The interesting part of this pushback isn't that there's between-individual variability with different populations, but that "white guy with stickers on his laptop", and the realm of predictive strategies that implies, is a very poor indicator of intellectual broadness or diversity. But do you really care, seeing as to how you've already furthered a theory of someone else being either emotionally hostile or defensive? And do you really not see the obviousness of how a certain situation plays out, of someone using white guy with stickers on laptop as a symbol for toxicity? Or do you see the obviousness, and that's why you're playing the situation out this way?
zestyping 8y ago
> your unnecessary and highly defensive response is very telling. You just crossed the line from making this about the issue to making it personal. That's not okay.

deogeo 8y ago

> People of every race and every gender have the capacity to be this kind of self-centered egotist He didn't imply that women and non-whites can't be self-centered egotists, only that they're less so than white men. Despite the author of the article being Russian, a very different culture than the US.