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Lately I've become frustrated with the focus on recycling as a profit center. In particular, only recycling material that can be turned around into a product th

Lately I've become frustrated with the focus on recycling as a profit center. In particular, only recycling material that can be turned around into a product that consumers will buy. One of the things that I believe plastic waste would be good for would be large (say 3'(1m) x 3'(1m) x 6'(2m)) bricks, designed with three holes in them and a tongue and groove design such that they could be stacked on to recycled metal rods that had been pounded into the ground to form barriers. Not a bullet proof as concrete but certainly functional for things such as levy re-inforcement, keep out zones, and wind shelters.

michaelbuckbee 8y ago
This is a really interesting idea, a little googling found this project [1] which produced bricks formed from plastics in a "sungrill" which would also help to reduce the energy inputs 1 - https://www.dw.com/en/bricks-made-of-plastic-trash/a-18799557 https://www.dw.com/en/bricks-made-of-plastic-trash/a-1879955...
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  That is exactly the idea, with the added benefit of doing it with solar power so its transportable into places without any source of heat. Imagine those bricks scaled up by a factor of 10. Quite the R factor as well. It would take better solar ovens to melt them into bricks but that is a matter of resources not technology hurdles.
lainga 8y ago
I think you could also compact them loosely into a sort of aggregate and fill gabions with it
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  You could, but I would be concerned that it would not have quite the density one would want without heating and compacting.
TeMPOraL 8y ago
Might be a non-problem compared to benefits, but I wonder if such bricks shouldn't be coated with something, to prevent weathering (wind, grit, UV) turning them into microplastics emitters?
- ansible 8y ago
  Indeed. Most plastics (unless specially formulated and/or treated) will break down when exposed to UV light. So weathering and release of plastic particles is indeed a concern. We'd be better off looking for more things to make out of cardboard printed with non-toxic inks, glued with non-toxic (and non-plastic) glue.
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  Yes, coating them is recommended. The 'design' of the brick that I did for this has 4" wide 2" deep grooves horizontally (one) and vertically (2) on the outer surface. The thought was that lumber could be screwed into the brick and then off the shelf siding or drywall could be attached to the lumber. The grooves also provide channels for in wall services (power, water, communications). Some specialty ones for window casements and door casements. The original concept was to set up a processing center in the California high desert near a rail line and provide employment and shelter for anyone who was willing to work at the plant to process the recyclables into stable building materials. Sort of a community that is both saving the world and providing homes, work, and community for those less fortunate.
Someone 8y ago
I would guess even waste plastic is worth too much for that. Ballpark (very, very much so, but attempting to round towards “plastic is cheaper”), a solid two cubic meters block has the carbon of 10 barrels of crude oil, and burning it releases about the heat of burning at least 6 of them (crude oil 40MJ/kg, non$reuse plastics 30MJ/kg (https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Energy-Values-Non-Recycled-Plastics.pdf) https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Energy-Values-Non-Rec...). That would cost at least $250 today. A concrete block that size costs about $100, excluding transport costs. The better idea probably would be to make the equivalent of sand bags out of the waste plastic, and fill that up with earth to build those structures. One could even build containers for reuse in that way, just as Heineken’s “World Bottle” did (https://laughingsquid.com/heineken-wobo-a-beer-bottle-brick-for-building-eco-homes https://laughingsquid.com/heineken-wobo-a-beer-bottle-brick-...)
- ChuckMcM 8y ago
  It isn't worth that though. At least in California, there aren't any incinerators which have been certified for burning waste plastic for heat/co-generation (I've checked). As a result there is a surplus of waste plastic and it is going, typically, into landfill (at an average cost of $45 per ton). As the article pointed out, the value of sending it to China was that the cost of moving the container back there was going to paid anyway, so filling it with plastic was a kind of a win for the Chinese. The origin of this concept was Jeff Bezo's call to figure out what we could do to help the most people. So a philanthropic angle were the 'cost' was the externalities of poverty, homelessness, and the unemployable. My brother in law is a structural engineer and we were batting around ideas about recycling waste into housing for the homeless. But neither of us were looking to create the favelas of Brazil or the slums of Mumbai, to be successful we thought the homes should be, to the greatest extent possible, "normal" homes. And how would we build those out of cast off materials while employing people who might have few skills and perhaps mental health issues that made working traditional jobs difficult. So how could you build a self sustaining community that was doing something good for the world so they could take pride in their work, anyone could contribute in some way, and facilitated a higher standard of living. So what is the value of that? Versus the cost of the waste plastic? (and glass, and metal) San Francisco spends nearly $200 million a year on helping the homeless. They keep raising the garbage rates because the cost of landfill is going up too. Add in the costs spent by San Jose, Oakland, and Los Angeles on similar programs. And you have some fraction of over $1B/year that could be going toward a program like this rather than stop gap measures. That is the idea at least.
mLuby 8y ago
Great idea—-let me take it further: Democrats should fund Wall but only if it's made of 100% recycled materials offset with carbon credits. :D
jayd16 8y ago
My take is the opposite. Personally I'm ready to pretax the supplier on all disposable plastic with a refund if proven recycled. If the profit motive isn't strong enough, make it stronger.

michaelbuckbee 8y ago

This is a really interesting idea, a little googling found this project [1] which produced bricks formed from plastics in a "sungrill" which would also help to reduce the energy inputs 1 - https://www.dw.com/en/bricks-made-of-plastic-trash/a-18799557 https://www.dw.com/en/bricks-made-of-plastic-trash/a-1879955...

ChuckMcM 8y ago
That is exactly the idea, with the added benefit of doing it with solar power so its transportable into places without any source of heat. Imagine those bricks scaled up by a factor of 10. Quite the R factor as well. It would take better solar ovens to melt them into bricks but that is a matter of resources not technology hurdles.

lainga 8y ago

I think you could also compact them loosely into a sort of aggregate and fill gabions with it

ChuckMcM 8y ago
You could, but I would be concerned that it would not have quite the density one would want without heating and compacting.

TeMPOraL 8y ago

Might be a non-problem compared to benefits, but I wonder if such bricks shouldn't be coated with something, to prevent weathering (wind, grit, UV) turning them into microplastics emitters?

ansible 8y ago
Indeed. Most plastics (unless specially formulated and/or treated) will break down when exposed to UV light. So weathering and release of plastic particles is indeed a concern. We'd be better off looking for more things to make out of cardboard printed with non-toxic inks, glued with non-toxic (and non-plastic) glue.
ChuckMcM 8y ago
Yes, coating them is recommended. The 'design' of the brick that I did for this has 4" wide 2" deep grooves horizontally (one) and vertically (2) on the outer surface. The thought was that lumber could be screwed into the brick and then off the shelf siding or drywall could be attached to the lumber. The grooves also provide channels for in wall services (power, water, communications). Some specialty ones for window casements and door casements. The original concept was to set up a processing center in the California high desert near a rail line and provide employment and shelter for anyone who was willing to work at the plant to process the recyclables into stable building materials. Sort of a community that is both saving the world and providing homes, work, and community for those less fortunate.

Someone 8y ago

I would guess even waste plastic is worth too much for that. Ballpark (very, very much so, but attempting to round towards “plastic is cheaper”), a solid two cubic meters block has the carbon of 10 barrels of crude oil, and burning it releases about the heat of burning at least 6 of them (crude oil 40MJ/kg, non$reuse plastics 30MJ/kg (https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Energy-Values-Non-Recycled-Plastics.pdf) https://plastics.americanchemistry.com/Energy-Values-Non-Rec...). That would cost at least $250 today. A concrete block that size costs about $100, excluding transport costs. The better idea probably would be to make the equivalent of sand bags out of the waste plastic, and fill that up with earth to build those structures. One could even build containers for reuse in that way, just as Heineken’s “World Bottle” did (https://laughingsquid.com/heineken-wobo-a-beer-bottle-brick-for-building-eco-homes https://laughingsquid.com/heineken-wobo-a-beer-bottle-brick-...)

ChuckMcM 8y ago
It isn't worth that though. At least in California, there aren't any incinerators which have been certified for burning waste plastic for heat/co-generation (I've checked). As a result there is a surplus of waste plastic and it is going, typically, into landfill (at an average cost of $45 per ton). As the article pointed out, the value of sending it to China was that the cost of moving the container back there was going to paid anyway, so filling it with plastic was a kind of a win for the Chinese. The origin of this concept was Jeff Bezo's call to figure out what we could do to help the most people. So a philanthropic angle were the 'cost' was the externalities of poverty, homelessness, and the unemployable. My brother in law is a structural engineer and we were batting around ideas about recycling waste into housing for the homeless. But neither of us were looking to create the favelas of Brazil or the slums of Mumbai, to be successful we thought the homes should be, to the greatest extent possible, "normal" homes. And how would we build those out of cast off materials while employing people who might have few skills and perhaps mental health issues that made working traditional jobs difficult. So how could you build a self sustaining community that was doing something good for the world so they could take pride in their work, anyone could contribute in some way, and facilitated a higher standard of living. So what is the value of that? Versus the cost of the waste plastic? (and glass, and metal) San Francisco spends nearly $200 million a year on helping the homeless. They keep raising the garbage rates because the cost of landfill is going up too. Add in the costs spent by San Jose, Oakland, and Los Angeles on similar programs. And you have some fraction of over $1B/year that could be going toward a program like this rather than stop gap measures. That is the idea at least.

mLuby 8y ago

Great idea—-let me take it further: Democrats should fund Wall but only if it's made of 100% recycled materials offset with carbon credits. :D

jayd16 8y ago

My take is the opposite. Personally I'm ready to pretax the supplier on all disposable plastic with a refund if proven recycled. If the profit motive isn't strong enough, make it stronger.