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This seems like exactly what some commenters were asking for in the "I Scanned Austria"[1] post 9 days ago. This seems like the digital version of checking for

This seems like exactly what some commenters were asking for in the "I Scanned Austria"[1] post 9 days ago. This seems like the digital version of checking for locked doors. Here in Montreal you can get a ticket for leaving your car door unlocked. This seems like a similar initiative, but one that protects against greater threats while being less punitive. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19113147 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19113147

tokyodude 8y ago
> you can get a ticket for leaving your car door unlocked What is the reasoning behind that law? I know plenty of people who live in areas where they don't lock their house because they believe it's safe enough not to have to lock it. And besides, anyone who really wanted in could bust the door down or break a window. Same with cars. I've had my car broken into 5 times in LA/SF. They busted the window each time. Not locking would have solved nothing although maybe it would have saved me having to pay to get the window replaced. Ideally if the law is about preventing crime it seems like they should actually try preventing the crimes rather than tell citizens to change their lives. Here in Japan pull out car stereos are not a thing and they have large car stereos that are not available in the USA. They are not available in the USA because they're too large to carry and would get stolen. I'd prefer to live in a society that protects it's people's lifestyles than one which tells them "that's the way the world is, lock your stuff up" Not sure that made any sense. There's plenty of things you can do in Japan you can't do other places because the crime level is high in those other places. The attitude of those other places is "crime exists, there's nothing to be done about it, so suck it up". Living somewhere where the crime doesn't exist (or is low enough to ignore it) opened my eyes that I was in a a bubble of "crime is the way things are". Now I see that no, it's the way we let them be. I'm sure it's more complicated than that.
- close04 8y ago
  The idea is that you are costing the police valuable resources for something you could have easily avoided by locking the car. Many countries have such laws. You have to take the proper precautions or face a fine. An open door is seen as an invitation even for a thief that normally wouldn’t risk breaking a window. Basically for crimes of opportunity. And this applies to houses, cars, etc. Insurance companies will see it the same way.
  - Gpetrium 8y ago
    Not only will it cost the police more, but it also costs the car insurance and by proxy everyone that is insured. If 100 people leave the car unlocked and are robbed and on average the car costs $30,000, this will cost $3,000,000 + insurance resource + customer hassle + police resources + judicial resources. That is a steep cost to all parties. (Dis)incentives are more successful when it considers all actors.
    - codefined 8y ago
      'Smashing a window' is unlikely to incur costs of $30,000, perhaps $300 is a better estimate. I would also argue that insurance resources, customer hassle, police resources and judicial resources are also all roughly equal for handling stolen items from a car, versus stolen items from a car + window broken.
      - close04 8y ago
        You’re ignoring the fact that an unlocked door greatly increases the chance of the crime happening in the first place. It won’t cost more but it will make it happen more times. Many opportunistic thieves will simply try the door and only go in if it opens.
    - EpicEng 8y ago
      In what world does a broken window total a car? While we're at it, in what world does your insurance premium not increase drastically after you collect on a claim? Your math is incredible flawed?
      - Gpetrium 8y ago
        My example implies that some cars will be broken into for items that are in it while other cars will be taken by the assailant, the $30,000 example is for visual purposes. Do you expect all cars that are left open or broken into, to be just for a 'car stereo'? Do you expect all assailants to go to court and incurring the judicial cost I listed? "As an example, while a simple automobile case may resolve quickly after case initiation and incur less than $10,000 in fees, the total costs of such a case can also exceed $100,000 per side if the case goes to trial." - IAALS.Du.EDU
- Cyphase 8y ago
  > I've had my car broken into 5 times in LA/SF. They busted the window each time. Not locking would have solved nothing although maybe it would have saved me having to pay to get the window replaced. Tangential story: I know someone who used to have a soft-top convertible. He would purposefully leave it unlocked because he didn't want someone to tear open the top to get in, which they could very easily do. Someone still tore it open one time to get some change out of the center console.
inherentFloyd 8y ago
>Here in Montreal you can get a ticket for leaving your car door unlocked. Here in the US you get robbed when you leave your car door unlocked. Kind of a punitive measure in its own way.
- coryrc 8y ago
  In some parts of the US, you get your window broken when you leave your car locked. Unlocked, your stuff just gets ruffled because you know not to keep anything worth money in the vehicle.
  - Johnny555 8y ago
    It's true - when I used to park on the street in SF, I left my doors unlocked after multiple break-ins through the windows. I had nothing of value in the car (not even a car stereo, it was stolen and I never replaced it), but apparently they didn't believe me and wanted to break in and check the glove compartment and center console to be sure.
  - tzakrajs 8y ago
    People just break your windows anyways because they don’t expect the door to be unlocked. Have heard this anecdote from friends twice. Also the people breaking into cars aren’t typically the most sober or mindful of detail. I had my car broken into a little while ago and they stole a bag of tools on the seat but ignored a like new MacBook Pro on the floor of the car. The point is that you can’t win and should enjoy losing.

tokyodude 8y ago

> you can get a ticket for leaving your car door unlocked What is the reasoning behind that law? I know plenty of people who live in areas where they don't lock their house because they believe it's safe enough not to have to lock it. And besides, anyone who really wanted in could bust the door down or break a window. Same with cars. I've had my car broken into 5 times in LA/SF. They busted the window each time. Not locking would have solved nothing although maybe it would have saved me having to pay to get the window replaced. Ideally if the law is about preventing crime it seems like they should actually try preventing the crimes rather than tell citizens to change their lives. Here in Japan pull out car stereos are not a thing and they have large car stereos that are not available in the USA. They are not available in the USA because they're too large to carry and would get stolen. I'd prefer to live in a society that protects it's people's lifestyles than one which tells them "that's the way the world is, lock your stuff up" Not sure that made any sense. There's plenty of things you can do in Japan you can't do other places because the crime level is high in those other places. The attitude of those other places is "crime exists, there's nothing to be done about it, so suck it up". Living somewhere where the crime doesn't exist (or is low enough to ignore it) opened my eyes that I was in a a bubble of "crime is the way things are". Now I see that no, it's the way we let them be. I'm sure it's more complicated than that.

close04 8y ago
The idea is that you are costing the police valuable resources for something you could have easily avoided by locking the car. Many countries have such laws. You have to take the proper precautions or face a fine. An open door is seen as an invitation even for a thief that normally wouldn’t risk breaking a window. Basically for crimes of opportunity. And this applies to houses, cars, etc. Insurance companies will see it the same way.
- Gpetrium 8y ago
  Not only will it cost the police more, but it also costs the car insurance and by proxy everyone that is insured. If 100 people leave the car unlocked and are robbed and on average the car costs $30,000, this will cost $3,000,000 + insurance resource + customer hassle + police resources + judicial resources. That is a steep cost to all parties. (Dis)incentives are more successful when it considers all actors.
  - codefined 8y ago
    'Smashing a window' is unlikely to incur costs of $30,000, perhaps $300 is a better estimate. I would also argue that insurance resources, customer hassle, police resources and judicial resources are also all roughly equal for handling stolen items from a car, versus stolen items from a car + window broken.
    - close04 8y ago
      You’re ignoring the fact that an unlocked door greatly increases the chance of the crime happening in the first place. It won’t cost more but it will make it happen more times. Many opportunistic thieves will simply try the door and only go in if it opens.
  - EpicEng 8y ago
    In what world does a broken window total a car? While we're at it, in what world does your insurance premium not increase drastically after you collect on a claim? Your math is incredible flawed?
    - Gpetrium 8y ago
      My example implies that some cars will be broken into for items that are in it while other cars will be taken by the assailant, the $30,000 example is for visual purposes. Do you expect all cars that are left open or broken into, to be just for a 'car stereo'? Do you expect all assailants to go to court and incurring the judicial cost I listed? "As an example, while a simple automobile case may resolve quickly after case initiation and incur less than $10,000 in fees, the total costs of such a case can also exceed $100,000 per side if the case goes to trial." - IAALS.Du.EDU
Cyphase 8y ago
> I've had my car broken into 5 times in LA/SF. They busted the window each time. Not locking would have solved nothing although maybe it would have saved me having to pay to get the window replaced. Tangential story: I know someone who used to have a soft-top convertible. He would purposefully leave it unlocked because he didn't want someone to tear open the top to get in, which they could very easily do. Someone still tore it open one time to get some change out of the center console.

inherentFloyd 8y ago

>Here in Montreal you can get a ticket for leaving your car door unlocked. Here in the US you get robbed when you leave your car door unlocked. Kind of a punitive measure in its own way.

coryrc 8y ago
In some parts of the US, you get your window broken when you leave your car locked. Unlocked, your stuff just gets ruffled because you know not to keep anything worth money in the vehicle.
- Johnny555 8y ago
  It's true - when I used to park on the street in SF, I left my doors unlocked after multiple break-ins through the windows. I had nothing of value in the car (not even a car stereo, it was stolen and I never replaced it), but apparently they didn't believe me and wanted to break in and check the glove compartment and center console to be sure.
- tzakrajs 8y ago
  People just break your windows anyways because they don’t expect the door to be unlocked. Have heard this anecdote from friends twice. Also the people breaking into cars aren’t typically the most sober or mindful of detail. I had my car broken into a little while ago and they stole a bag of tools on the seat but ignored a like new MacBook Pro on the floor of the car. The point is that you can’t win and should enjoy losing.