7 ms·

I'm extremely surprised to see Franken on this list. Wasn't he outspoken against this sort of thing?

G_Wen 16y ago
Yes, he was a pretty big advocate on net neutrality: http://www.alfranken.com/index.php/splash/netneutrality http://www.alfranken.com/index.php/splash/netneutrality http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/19/can-al-franken-save-net-neutrality/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/19/can-al-franken-save-net... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20011587-503544.html http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20011587-503544.html http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/600_convene_for_broadband_town_hall.html http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/600_convene_for_broad... Edit more links: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/senator-internet-gatekeepers-biggest-threat-to-free-speech.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/senator-inte... http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/sen-al-franken-gets-serious-on-free-speech-net-neutrality/19184783/ http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/sen-al-franken-gets-... http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/10/08/20/sen-al-franken-we-have-free-speech-problem http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/10/08/20/sen-al-franken-... Yes, America does have a free speech problem.
- ataggart 16y ago
  More evidence that "net neutrality", like "reform", is a fill-in-the-blank phrase meaning whatever one thinks it means. In this way listeners to a politician speaking automatically fill in the blank with whatever they personally would support. That the actual legislation the politician implements might be anathema to the ostensible supporters is a humorous side-effect.
  - Natsu 16y ago
    Well, originally (that is, somewhere before the term Net Neutrality was coined & lobbyists were hired), there was this plan by the big telecoms that they had recently announced. They were going to slow down internet traffic to sites, especially big ones like Google, unless those people gave them money. There was no talk about infrastructure, just a naked money grab, and this was in a speech to others in the telecom industry that I don't think they expected so many people to hear about. After that, there was mass outrage from everyone from the ACLU to the Christian Coalition. Everyone was united: this was naked extortion. Then people banded together and started calling it "Net Neutrality." And the lobbyists were hired. The unraveling began when they started questioning what people would do about it. The debate changed from "this is horrible! how can the telcos do that!" to "there needs to be a law!" vs. "we can't trust the government to regulate the internet!" Sadly, I think both positions are correct, but for different reasons. But by creating a rift and pitting people--people who were all outraged by this horrible plan--they've kept us from doing much of anything at all to stop them. The free market won't do much good against a natural monopoly, but we really, truly cannot trust the government with too much power. So, in spite of the fact that pretty much everyone was outraged by these plans for middlemen to hobble our internet connections, we've been pitted against each other by lobbyists. Lovely, huh?
    - jbooth 16y ago
      Pretty standard -- just throw enough dirt into the air, everyone throws up their hands, and the media "reports the controversy".
- javert 16y ago
  What does this bill have in common with net neutrality? More government control of what is otherwise private property. It's consistent to support both.
  - G_Wen 16y ago
    Yes I thought about this more after I posted my comment and realized that is is reasonable to be a supporter of both. It did come as a bit of a surprise when I had heard Al Franken voted for this bill since he was so public about his views on net neutrality.
- doki_pen 16y ago
  He is a supporter of net neutrality but is on record as saying ISPs should combat copyright infringement. When the question of how both could be accomplished arises he admits to being complete ignorant of how technology works.
younata 16y ago
If I hold several billion (or whatever absurdly high amount you want) dollars in front of your face, you'd vote against your beliefs as well.
- ryandvm 16y ago
  Try me.
  - jimmyjim 16y ago
    Are you running for office?
    - camiller 16y ago
      With your contribution to my campaign fund...
  - kenjackson 16y ago
    Try me too.... I will take the billions.
- cabalamat 16y ago
  This assumes that politicians actually have beliefs. While I'm sure that some do, I'm also sure that some of them -- especially after years of being bribed with money -- vote in ways that're indistinguishable from how they would vote if they were trying to maximise their wealth and power.
  - lucasjung 16y ago
    I agree with you, but I want to add a tempering thought: in many cases (not all, but probably most), voting to "maximize their wealth and power" ends up looking a whole lot like voting to do what their constituents want. You can get away with doing the will of the lobbyists against the will of your constituents in cases that don't garner much attention, or that your constituents are indifferent to, but if it's an issue your constituents care about, all of the special interest money in the world isn't going to save you from their wrath at the ballot box. When my cynicism starts to get the better of me, this is the thought that keeps me sane: whether by accident or design, the system we have keeps naked self-interest somewhat in check by correlating (at least moderately) the fortunes of the representative to the desires of the people.
protomyth 16y ago
No, he is always for big media and apparently he convinced MN's other Senator to be a sponsor.
WalterBright 16y ago
I'm not. Power is a seductive mistress.
scarlson 16y ago
I emailed my Senators (native Minnesotan). If I get anything other than an automated response I'll be sure to edit and include it. I'm really dismayed that Franken supported this, especially considering his stance on net neutrality. We might need 10 or 20 more Jammie Thomas-Rassets to get enough of a popular response from citizens to really change our Senators minds. Here's hoping...
- shotgun 16y ago
  I worked on the Google Twin Ports initiative in Duluth and am also shocked that Al is on this list. He participated in a the production of a video in support: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2i_piWVXuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2i_piWVXuc Please let me know what you hear back. If we need to raise hell about this issue I'm in and know a number of others in MN that will help...
  - scarlson 16y ago
    Response from Al: November 24, 2010 Dear Steve, Thank you for contacting me about the Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA). I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue. I believe that intellectual property enforcement is extremely important. We must protect American jobs from piracy, which has become rampant on the Internet. We don't tolerate shoplifters in stores, and we should not tolerate them online. COICA would give the Department of Justice an expedited process for cracking down on websites whose primary purpose is to sell pirated goods. Right now, if a company finds that its products are being pirated or counterfeited online, its only recourse is to sue in civil court, a process that can take years, during which time the offending website continues to do harm. Under COICA, the Justice Department gains jurisdiction over off-shore infringers--something that is extremely difficult under current law--and can use expedited legal procedures to stop the worst of these offenders. I was initially wary of COICA, but there have been some important improvements that have addressed my concerns. The most controversial provision of this bill, sometimes called the "Internet Blacklist," originally directed the Justice Department to publish a list of offending websites and encouraged Internet service providers (ISPs) and other relevant parties to shut down the listed websites without a judicial process. This provision was clearly wrong, and I was glad to see it removed prior to the bill's consideration. I also worked with Chairman Leahy to narrow the definition of an infringing site to include only sites where copyright infringement is "the central purpose" of the site, not sites which may be engaged in copyright infringement incidentally but are also devoted to other purposes. This bill has also been amended to protect net neutrality. In the initial version of the bill, ISPs were given legal immunity to voluntarily enforce the bill's provisions and block access to websites. This provision has been removed. As it currently stands, this bill won't allow a fast lane and a slow lane of Internet traffic. It will not affect net neutrality, which has always been about protecting users' access to legal content. It is unlikely that this bill will come to the floor of the Senate before the end of the year. This means that it must pass through the legislative process again in the next Congress. I look forward to working with Chairman Leahy to further improve the bill next year. Thank you again for contacting me. Please don't hesitate to contact me again on this or any other issue that may be important to you. Sincerely, Al Franken United States Senator
nubian 16y ago
Al Franken is also a big TSA supporter. “You’re doing a fabulous job and you ought to be supported,” the Minnesota Democrat told a gathering of about 25 transportation security officers (TSOs) and representatives of their union, Local 899 of the American Federation of Government Employees. http://blog.alfranken.com/2010/02/18/workday-minnesota-tsa-organizing-gets-boost-from-franken-visit/ http://blog.alfranken.com/2010/02/18/workday-minnesota-tsa-o...

G_Wen 16y ago

Yes, he was a pretty big advocate on net neutrality: http://www.alfranken.com/index.php/splash/netneutrality http://www.alfranken.com/index.php/splash/netneutrality http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/19/can-al-franken-save-net-neutrality/ http://www.crunchgear.com/2010/08/19/can-al-franken-save-net... http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20011587-503544.html http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20011587-503544.html http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/600_convene_for_broadband_town_hall.html http://colorlines.com/archives/2010/08/600_convene_for_broad... Edit more links: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/senator-internet-gatekeepers-biggest-threat-to-free-speech.ars http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2010/07/senator-inte... http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/sen-al-franken-gets-serious-on-free-speech-net-neutrality/19184783/ http://www.dailyfinance.com/story/media/sen-al-franken-gets-... http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/10/08/20/sen-al-franken-we-have-free-speech-problem http://www.savetheinternet.com/blog/10/08/20/sen-al-franken-... Yes, America does have a free speech problem.

ataggart 16y ago
More evidence that "net neutrality", like "reform", is a fill-in-the-blank phrase meaning whatever one thinks it means. In this way listeners to a politician speaking automatically fill in the blank with whatever they personally would support. That the actual legislation the politician implements might be anathema to the ostensible supporters is a humorous side-effect.
- Natsu 16y ago
  Well, originally (that is, somewhere before the term Net Neutrality was coined & lobbyists were hired), there was this plan by the big telecoms that they had recently announced. They were going to slow down internet traffic to sites, especially big ones like Google, unless those people gave them money. There was no talk about infrastructure, just a naked money grab, and this was in a speech to others in the telecom industry that I don't think they expected so many people to hear about. After that, there was mass outrage from everyone from the ACLU to the Christian Coalition. Everyone was united: this was naked extortion. Then people banded together and started calling it "Net Neutrality." And the lobbyists were hired. The unraveling began when they started questioning what people would do about it. The debate changed from "this is horrible! how can the telcos do that!" to "there needs to be a law!" vs. "we can't trust the government to regulate the internet!" Sadly, I think both positions are correct, but for different reasons. But by creating a rift and pitting people--people who were all outraged by this horrible plan--they've kept us from doing much of anything at all to stop them. The free market won't do much good against a natural monopoly, but we really, truly cannot trust the government with too much power. So, in spite of the fact that pretty much everyone was outraged by these plans for middlemen to hobble our internet connections, we've been pitted against each other by lobbyists. Lovely, huh?
  - jbooth 16y ago
    Pretty standard -- just throw enough dirt into the air, everyone throws up their hands, and the media "reports the controversy".
javert 16y ago
What does this bill have in common with net neutrality? More government control of what is otherwise private property. It's consistent to support both.
- G_Wen 16y ago
  Yes I thought about this more after I posted my comment and realized that is is reasonable to be a supporter of both. It did come as a bit of a surprise when I had heard Al Franken voted for this bill since he was so public about his views on net neutrality.
doki_pen 16y ago
He is a supporter of net neutrality but is on record as saying ISPs should combat copyright infringement. When the question of how both could be accomplished arises he admits to being complete ignorant of how technology works.

younata 16y ago

If I hold several billion (or whatever absurdly high amount you want) dollars in front of your face, you'd vote against your beliefs as well.

ryandvm 16y ago
Try me.
- jimmyjim 16y ago
  Are you running for office?
  - camiller 16y ago
    With your contribution to my campaign fund...
- kenjackson 16y ago
  Try me too.... I will take the billions.
cabalamat 16y ago
This assumes that politicians actually have beliefs. While I'm sure that some do, I'm also sure that some of them -- especially after years of being bribed with money -- vote in ways that're indistinguishable from how they would vote if they were trying to maximise their wealth and power.
- lucasjung 16y ago
  I agree with you, but I want to add a tempering thought: in many cases (not all, but probably most), voting to "maximize their wealth and power" ends up looking a whole lot like voting to do what their constituents want. You can get away with doing the will of the lobbyists against the will of your constituents in cases that don't garner much attention, or that your constituents are indifferent to, but if it's an issue your constituents care about, all of the special interest money in the world isn't going to save you from their wrath at the ballot box. When my cynicism starts to get the better of me, this is the thought that keeps me sane: whether by accident or design, the system we have keeps naked self-interest somewhat in check by correlating (at least moderately) the fortunes of the representative to the desires of the people.

protomyth 16y ago

No, he is always for big media and apparently he convinced MN's other Senator to be a sponsor.

WalterBright 16y ago

I'm not. Power is a seductive mistress.

scarlson 16y ago

I emailed my Senators (native Minnesotan). If I get anything other than an automated response I'll be sure to edit and include it. I'm really dismayed that Franken supported this, especially considering his stance on net neutrality. We might need 10 or 20 more Jammie Thomas-Rassets to get enough of a popular response from citizens to really change our Senators minds. Here's hoping...

shotgun 16y ago
I worked on the Google Twin Ports initiative in Duluth and am also shocked that Al is on this list. He participated in a the production of a video in support: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2i_piWVXuc http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2i_piWVXuc Please let me know what you hear back. If we need to raise hell about this issue I'm in and know a number of others in MN that will help...
- scarlson 16y ago
  Response from Al: November 24, 2010 Dear Steve, Thank you for contacting me about the Combating Online Infringement and Counterfeits Act (COICA). I appreciate hearing from you on this important issue. I believe that intellectual property enforcement is extremely important. We must protect American jobs from piracy, which has become rampant on the Internet. We don't tolerate shoplifters in stores, and we should not tolerate them online. COICA would give the Department of Justice an expedited process for cracking down on websites whose primary purpose is to sell pirated goods. Right now, if a company finds that its products are being pirated or counterfeited online, its only recourse is to sue in civil court, a process that can take years, during which time the offending website continues to do harm. Under COICA, the Justice Department gains jurisdiction over off-shore infringers--something that is extremely difficult under current law--and can use expedited legal procedures to stop the worst of these offenders. I was initially wary of COICA, but there have been some important improvements that have addressed my concerns. The most controversial provision of this bill, sometimes called the "Internet Blacklist," originally directed the Justice Department to publish a list of offending websites and encouraged Internet service providers (ISPs) and other relevant parties to shut down the listed websites without a judicial process. This provision was clearly wrong, and I was glad to see it removed prior to the bill's consideration. I also worked with Chairman Leahy to narrow the definition of an infringing site to include only sites where copyright infringement is "the central purpose" of the site, not sites which may be engaged in copyright infringement incidentally but are also devoted to other purposes. This bill has also been amended to protect net neutrality. In the initial version of the bill, ISPs were given legal immunity to voluntarily enforce the bill's provisions and block access to websites. This provision has been removed. As it currently stands, this bill won't allow a fast lane and a slow lane of Internet traffic. It will not affect net neutrality, which has always been about protecting users' access to legal content. It is unlikely that this bill will come to the floor of the Senate before the end of the year. This means that it must pass through the legislative process again in the next Congress. I look forward to working with Chairman Leahy to further improve the bill next year. Thank you again for contacting me. Please don't hesitate to contact me again on this or any other issue that may be important to you. Sincerely, Al Franken United States Senator

nubian 16y ago

Al Franken is also a big TSA supporter. “You’re doing a fabulous job and you ought to be supported,” the Minnesota Democrat told a gathering of about 25 transportation security officers (TSOs) and representatives of their union, Local 899 of the American Federation of Government Employees. http://blog.alfranken.com/2010/02/18/workday-minnesota-tsa-organizing-gets-boost-from-franken-visit/ http://blog.alfranken.com/2010/02/18/workday-minnesota-tsa-o...