8 ms·

Saw an interesting documentary on the topic lately. They also had an interrogator who got someone to confess to a crime they didnt commit. And not just confess

Saw an interesting documentary on the topic lately. They also had an interrogator who got someone to confess to a crime they didnt commit. And not just confess but actually believe it with the brain making up details of something that never happened. https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 https://youtu.be/FxOy6z0yq5w?t=1462 He was lucky that it turned out he wasnt in the country at the time of the murder and they found the alleged real killer instead. Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing. If it comes to it talk to your attorney and then the judge. The police isnt looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction. Finding the truth is the job of a judge or a jury.

sonnyblarney 8y ago
"Don't talk to the cops" is the surest way to get criminals off and to create ghetto-like conditions. Yes, definitely 'talk to the cops' unless you're a suspect of something that you didn't do, and then of course get a lawyer.
- cf141q5325 8y ago
  Good luck on getting out of a hole you dug yourself in before they determined that you make a good culprit. Lawyers do love themselves a client that decided they needed a lawyer after talking for hours. If you are sure you a only a wittiness and have something worthwhile to contribute prepare a statement, give that and nothing more. If they have more questions repeat the process. Once you start a conversation you are betting on how much CSI the officer saw recently and how shady they think you look.
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    Even witness statements ought to be given under the counsel of a lawyer.
    - cf141q5325 8y ago
      In a perfect world yes, but not everyone can afford a lawyer. To many people only remember to ask for a lawyer and are then thrown when its not a viable option and resign and start talking instead. Not having a conversation however is always an option you should stick by no matter what.
      - maxxxxx 8y ago
        Considering the cost for a lawyer I would also be reluctant to get one especially if I thought I didn’t do anything wrong.
- gotocake 8y ago
  The only words that should ever come out of your mouth and float to a cop’s ears are, “I’m invoking my rights to an attorney, and silence.” Rinse and repeat as needed, and ignore ideological arguments from strangers on the internet that don’t have your best interests in mind. Oh and “ghetto-like” wasn’t necessary.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
  - baud147258 8y ago
    If that's your reaction to a cop talking to you, I hope you're ready to spend some time at the police station.
    - gotocake 8y ago
      I am; the stupidest thing anyone can do is try to save some time at the expense of placing faith in the justice system. I’d add, how screwed up is a system that punishes you for exercising your constitutional rights.
- Nadya 8y ago
  "Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law." Note two things about this statement: 1) Nothing you say will be used for you. 2) Everything you say will be used against you. I forget the lawyer's name, but the above is paraphrased from a former prosecutor turned D.A. Never put forward any statement to the police without at least consulting your lawyer first. Even if you're innocent, even if you're providing a witness statement. Anything. By all means - give witness statements. Help the police do their job. Just be sure to speak with a lawyer first. There's a very high chance that even though you did nothing wrong you'll incriminate yourself by speaking up.
  - Quekid5 8y ago
    You may be thinking of Don't Talk to the Police[1]? I'm not sure if the speaker explicitly says this or just quotes someone who did, but let's just say that this is a recurring theme in the talk... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
  - RRWagner 8y ago
    "Will be used against you" to me is one of the strongest arguments against government surveillance without warrants. You can choose to not talk to police. You can't choose to have your data not gathered by the NSA.
  - hexane360 8y ago
    Point 1 doesn't logically follow from the Miranda rights. In fact, that's the whole point of the adversarial court system: everything you say will be used for and against you, by the defense and the prosecution respectively.
    - Nadya 8y ago
      How do you think your defense would obtain a copy of anything you said to use in your favor? In a situation where you would need it, it won't be presented unless you happen to have been recording yourself. But if you trust the police to not use things you say against you then you're also likely to trust them enough to not be recording your interactions. The prosecution has no incentive or motivation to present evidence that could be used to the benefit of the defense.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  People have a civic duty to cooperate with police to make their communities safer, true. The problem is that the police abuse this relationship to rush investgations and slap names on casefiles. If you say you were there, you become a suspect and if it goes to trial then your life literally falls into the hands of the most simpleminded people that voir dire couldn't eliminate, or a single "impartial" individual. Or, a simpler (real!) case- suppose you drive away from a bar having had too much to drink. You realize your mistake, pull over safely and pass out behind the wheel. A carjacker approaches you and steals your car at gunpoint. You go crying to the police. Soon as you tell them what you were even doing there, you're facing DUI charges yourself. You become the bad guy. Even if your car is recovered, you won't be driving it anytime soon. You'll lose your job if your employer finds out . You'll spend thousands on legal defense. All told you end up being punished more severely than the actual criminal-- because even if caught, he has nothing to lose. And this was all brought about because you freely admitted to committing a crime yourself.
  - lccarrasco 8y ago
    If you did pass out from drinking, even if you realized that it was a bad idea before anything happened, you deserve the DUI and don't deserve to use a car, I would hope the police don't just let you go free because you were carjacked.
- SampleBourgeois 8y ago
  "ghetto-like conditions" are caused by the effects of capitalism, not by refraining from talking to police.
- amanaplanacanal 8y ago
  How do you know you're a suspect? Are the police required to tell you? What if you become a suspect after you talk to the police? Are they required to disregard all the things you already told them?
umvi 8y ago
> Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing. What if you actually did do it, though? Wouldn't it be in the best interest of society if you did talk to the cops/confess? Otherwise you are just making everyone waste a bunch of time and money doing a dog and pony show that might result in an innocent person being punished for your crimes.
- cf141q5325 8y ago
  You shouldn't need to be asking yourself that as you shouldn't be going around committing crimes? But even then, talk to an attorney if you want to confess something and he will tell you how to do that. I dont know the situation in the US, but I would assume it would also involve the prosecutor instead of the police.
  - umvi 8y ago
    > You shouldn't need to be asking yourself that as you shouldn't be going around committing crimes? Some people feel guilty after committing crimes and turn themselves in. I'm asking on behalf of those types. Why is it a bad idea for them to just show up at the police department and confess?
    - Quekid5 8y ago
      Well, an obvious problem with it is that they may (will, probably) inadvertently confess to many many more crimes than they realize. A lawyer can help for "negotiating" a fair sentence. (The police & prosecutors will try to pin as much as possible on you. It's all about those numbers.)
    - jstarfish 8y ago
      You lose any negotiating power. You may feel guilty, but not enough to commit seppuku. So you can at least request your mortal body not be placed in the local hellhole prison, get a more reasonable sentence, etc. This is done by having a lawyer negotiating on your behalf.
- deleted 8y ago
ransom1538 8y ago
"The police isn't looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction." This video is of a fancy defense attorney and a police detective discussing about "talking to the police". BOTH, say don't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
gnulinux 8y ago
I'll be honest I don't understand "never talk to cops". Last night I was walking to my home (this is Boston, MA) and a cop very politely asked me if I walk this way every night this time. I was dumbfounded since I was listening to music and I get super anxious around cops so I said a few stupid things like "uhmm maybe, sometimes". He took a step away probably tried to show I'm not being interrogated and asked if I was here around this time last night, he's just looking for information for some case. I told him I went to the gym last night so I wasn't here around this time but a few hours later. He thanked me and I walked my way. In that situation would it make more sense to not say anything? I mean why would that be any better than saying what I said.
- iron0013 8y ago
  Of course it would have made more sense to not say anything! Can’t you see that you may have made yourself a suspect in a crime by admitting that you walk that way every night to a cop? It sounds ridiculous because it is, but it doesn’t make the fact that you put yourself at risk by talking tot he cop any less true
  - gnulinux 8y ago
    Sure but they have absolutely no evidence. They could do that anyway. They can just randomly pick me from crowd and claim I'm a suspect and they'd have the same amount of evidence. Or worse, they can observe the street and see that I walk it every day. If we believe US cops are dystopic like that, not talking to them doesn't solve those problems.
    - cf141q5325 8y ago
      The problem is you dont have to assume malice, as it is reasonable for a cop to react that way in his circumstances. I dont assume the cop in the video linked above wanted to pin something on the guy, he most likely really believed he was guilty. Thats the problem. Cops are confronted with criminals every day and its their job to look for suspects. Its really easy to look like a nail if someone has a hammer. And once you are seen as a suspect, confirmation bias sets in. And with every word you say the risk of them finding something that looks to them like circumstantial evidence rises. Assume you said you are walking there every night, but once he specifies to yesterday you contradict yourself, because yesterday was an exception. Now add some dumb luck and you know the victim of what ever happened and you dont have an alibi. Now you returned to the crime scene, know the victim and lied to a cop. Talking to a cop is simply reckless. They question suspects everyday and its likely your first time. You dont have to be guilty to contradict yourself in a stress situation, speech is a rather imperfect way to communicate. And sure, they can suspect you either way, and there is nothing you can do about it except getting an attorney. Cops suspecting you of something isnt that big of an issue, there is a separation of power between executive and judiciary for a reason. Its the job of a cop to make a case against a suspect. Its the job of a judge and jury to evaluate if that actually happened.

sonnyblarney 8y ago

"Don't talk to the cops" is the surest way to get criminals off and to create ghetto-like conditions. Yes, definitely 'talk to the cops' unless you're a suspect of something that you didn't do, and then of course get a lawyer.

cf141q5325 8y ago
Good luck on getting out of a hole you dug yourself in before they determined that you make a good culprit. Lawyers do love themselves a client that decided they needed a lawyer after talking for hours. If you are sure you a only a wittiness and have something worthwhile to contribute prepare a statement, give that and nothing more. If they have more questions repeat the process. Once you start a conversation you are betting on how much CSI the officer saw recently and how shady they think you look.
- jstarfish 8y ago
  Even witness statements ought to be given under the counsel of a lawyer.
  - cf141q5325 8y ago
    In a perfect world yes, but not everyone can afford a lawyer. To many people only remember to ask for a lawyer and are then thrown when its not a viable option and resign and start talking instead. Not having a conversation however is always an option you should stick by no matter what.
    - maxxxxx 8y ago
      Considering the cost for a lawyer I would also be reluctant to get one especially if I thought I didn’t do anything wrong.
gotocake 8y ago
The only words that should ever come out of your mouth and float to a cop’s ears are, “I’m invoking my rights to an attorney, and silence.” Rinse and repeat as needed, and ignore ideological arguments from strangers on the internet that don’t have your best interests in mind. Oh and “ghetto-like” wasn’t necessary.
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- baud147258 8y ago
  If that's your reaction to a cop talking to you, I hope you're ready to spend some time at the police station.
  - gotocake 8y ago
    I am; the stupidest thing anyone can do is try to save some time at the expense of placing faith in the justice system. I’d add, how screwed up is a system that punishes you for exercising your constitutional rights.
Nadya 8y ago
"Anything you say can and will be used against you in the court of law." Note two things about this statement: 1) Nothing you say will be used for you. 2) Everything you say will be used against you. I forget the lawyer's name, but the above is paraphrased from a former prosecutor turned D.A. Never put forward any statement to the police without at least consulting your lawyer first. Even if you're innocent, even if you're providing a witness statement. Anything. By all means - give witness statements. Help the police do their job. Just be sure to speak with a lawyer first. There's a very high chance that even though you did nothing wrong you'll incriminate yourself by speaking up.
- Quekid5 8y ago
  You may be thinking of Don't Talk to the Police[1]? I'm not sure if the speaker explicitly says this or just quotes someone who did, but let's just say that this is a recurring theme in the talk... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
- RRWagner 8y ago
  "Will be used against you" to me is one of the strongest arguments against government surveillance without warrants. You can choose to not talk to police. You can't choose to have your data not gathered by the NSA.
- hexane360 8y ago
  Point 1 doesn't logically follow from the Miranda rights. In fact, that's the whole point of the adversarial court system: everything you say will be used for and against you, by the defense and the prosecution respectively.
  - Nadya 8y ago
    How do you think your defense would obtain a copy of anything you said to use in your favor? In a situation where you would need it, it won't be presented unless you happen to have been recording yourself. But if you trust the police to not use things you say against you then you're also likely to trust them enough to not be recording your interactions. The prosecution has no incentive or motivation to present evidence that could be used to the benefit of the defense.
jstarfish 8y ago
People have a civic duty to cooperate with police to make their communities safer, true. The problem is that the police abuse this relationship to rush investgations and slap names on casefiles. If you say you were there, you become a suspect and if it goes to trial then your life literally falls into the hands of the most simpleminded people that voir dire couldn't eliminate, or a single "impartial" individual. Or, a simpler (real!) case- suppose you drive away from a bar having had too much to drink. You realize your mistake, pull over safely and pass out behind the wheel. A carjacker approaches you and steals your car at gunpoint. You go crying to the police. Soon as you tell them what you were even doing there, you're facing DUI charges yourself. You become the bad guy. Even if your car is recovered, you won't be driving it anytime soon. You'll lose your job if your employer finds out . You'll spend thousands on legal defense. All told you end up being punished more severely than the actual criminal-- because even if caught, he has nothing to lose. And this was all brought about because you freely admitted to committing a crime yourself.
- lccarrasco 8y ago
  If you did pass out from drinking, even if you realized that it was a bad idea before anything happened, you deserve the DUI and don't deserve to use a car, I would hope the police don't just let you go free because you were carjacked.
SampleBourgeois 8y ago
"ghetto-like conditions" are caused by the effects of capitalism, not by refraining from talking to police.
amanaplanacanal 8y ago
How do you know you're a suspect? Are the police required to tell you? What if you become a suspect after you talk to the police? Are they required to disregard all the things you already told them?

umvi 8y ago

> Cant repeat it often enough, just never talk to cops. No smalltalk no nothing. What if you actually did do it, though? Wouldn't it be in the best interest of society if you did talk to the cops/confess? Otherwise you are just making everyone waste a bunch of time and money doing a dog and pony show that might result in an innocent person being punished for your crimes.

cf141q5325 8y ago
You shouldn't need to be asking yourself that as you shouldn't be going around committing crimes? But even then, talk to an attorney if you want to confess something and he will tell you how to do that. I dont know the situation in the US, but I would assume it would also involve the prosecutor instead of the police.
- umvi 8y ago
  > You shouldn't need to be asking yourself that as you shouldn't be going around committing crimes? Some people feel guilty after committing crimes and turn themselves in. I'm asking on behalf of those types. Why is it a bad idea for them to just show up at the police department and confess?
  - Quekid5 8y ago
    Well, an obvious problem with it is that they may (will, probably) inadvertently confess to many many more crimes than they realize. A lawyer can help for "negotiating" a fair sentence. (The police & prosecutors will try to pin as much as possible on you. It's all about those numbers.)
  - jstarfish 8y ago
    You lose any negotiating power. You may feel guilty, but not enough to commit seppuku. So you can at least request your mortal body not be placed in the local hellhole prison, get a more reasonable sentence, etc. This is done by having a lawyer negotiating on your behalf.
deleted 8y ago

ransom1538 8y ago

"The police isn't looking for the truth but for a solid case for a conviction." This video is of a fancy defense attorney and a police detective discussing about "talking to the police". BOTH, say don't. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE

gnulinux 8y ago

I'll be honest I don't understand "never talk to cops". Last night I was walking to my home (this is Boston, MA) and a cop very politely asked me if I walk this way every night this time. I was dumbfounded since I was listening to music and I get super anxious around cops so I said a few stupid things like "uhmm maybe, sometimes". He took a step away probably tried to show I'm not being interrogated and asked if I was here around this time last night, he's just looking for information for some case. I told him I went to the gym last night so I wasn't here around this time but a few hours later. He thanked me and I walked my way. In that situation would it make more sense to not say anything? I mean why would that be any better than saying what I said.

iron0013 8y ago
Of course it would have made more sense to not say anything! Can’t you see that you may have made yourself a suspect in a crime by admitting that you walk that way every night to a cop? It sounds ridiculous because it is, but it doesn’t make the fact that you put yourself at risk by talking tot he cop any less true
- gnulinux 8y ago
  Sure but they have absolutely no evidence. They could do that anyway. They can just randomly pick me from crowd and claim I'm a suspect and they'd have the same amount of evidence. Or worse, they can observe the street and see that I walk it every day. If we believe US cops are dystopic like that, not talking to them doesn't solve those problems.
  - cf141q5325 8y ago
    The problem is you dont have to assume malice, as it is reasonable for a cop to react that way in his circumstances. I dont assume the cop in the video linked above wanted to pin something on the guy, he most likely really believed he was guilty. Thats the problem. Cops are confronted with criminals every day and its their job to look for suspects. Its really easy to look like a nail if someone has a hammer. And once you are seen as a suspect, confirmation bias sets in. And with every word you say the risk of them finding something that looks to them like circumstantial evidence rises. Assume you said you are walking there every night, but once he specifies to yesterday you contradict yourself, because yesterday was an exception. Now add some dumb luck and you know the victim of what ever happened and you dont have an alibi. Now you returned to the crime scene, know the victim and lied to a cop. Talking to a cop is simply reckless. They question suspects everyday and its likely your first time. You dont have to be guilty to contradict yourself in a stress situation, speech is a rather imperfect way to communicate. And sure, they can suspect you either way, and there is nothing you can do about it except getting an attorney. Cops suspecting you of something isnt that big of an issue, there is a separation of power between executive and judiciary for a reason. Its the job of a cop to make a case against a suspect. Its the job of a judge and jury to evaluate if that actually happened.