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> A coffee mug that usually sells for $10 + $3 S&H will go for $13, with FREE shipping. I actually prefer this. It's much better than shops that activity try t

> A coffee mug that usually sells for $10 + $3 S&H will go for $13, with FREE shipping. I actually prefer this. It's much better than shops that activity try to hide shipping costs until the last moment. Also it makes comparing prices quicker.

dalai 8y ago
On the other hand, if you want to buy two of them they cost $20 + $3 S&H or $26 with free shipping.
- glastra 8y ago
  S&H is not always fixed-rate. In fact, "handling" two items should cost more. Shipping more weight should also cost more.
  - elcomet 8y ago
    More than one shipping cost, yes, but it should be less than twice the shipping cost. Otherwise you could just order the items separately.
  - qrbLPHiKpiux 8y ago
    I bet a lot of people do not take into account of the time, fuel, wear-and-tear of their car to go get their wares.
- theli0nheart 8y ago
  Why is this surprising? Undesirable, sure, but shipping additional things costs additional money.
  - newnewpdro 8y ago
    That greatly depends on the things.
    - theli0nheart 8y ago
      What's your point?
      - newnewpdro 8y ago
        That your generalization does not generally apply, especially in an era of extremely miniaturized popular goods. Consolidating the S&H into the item cost makes sense for a subset of situations sure, but there's a huge set where it's exploitive. Amazon orders for example often can amortize S&H costs by shipping a single package containing multiple items sharing a common origin. I'd argue that's true for a huge portion of Amazon orders. It's simply not a good generalization.
        theli0nheart 8y ago
        I disagree that it's exploitative. It's simply easier. Recalculating shipping costs on a combinatatorial basis has a nonzero cost from a programming and operations POV. Having a fixed per-item shipping costs lowers overhead drastically, especially for smaller sellers. Large sellers obviously have different customers and I doubt they get away with just multiplying PER_ITEM_SHIPPING_COST X NUMBER_OF_ITEMS (I didn't think that was the focus on the OP though). I also disagree that it does not generally apply. Given two items, A & B, you might have the following total: A_shipping + A_price = A_total B_shipping + B_price = B_total What you're saying is that: AB_shipping + A_price + B_price < A_total + B_total But what I'm saying is that: A_shipping < AB_shipping B_shipping < AB_shipping In other words, no matter what, shipping more items does cost more than shipping less items. So it makes sense to charge more for it. How much more is a matter of economics.
  - zulln 8y ago
    Not as linear though.
rplnt 8y ago
That's true. But every time you buy two mugs you subsidize the shipping for people buying just one. There are better ways to solve the "hidden shipping costs" issue than tack the price to every item.
lgbr 8y ago
Furthermore, if you want to return the item, you're entitled to a full refund, rather than being forced to pay for shipping for an item you didn't want.
adriveatrain 8y ago
It does undermine the value logistics / delivery companies provide to the customers. An industry that works on 3% margins already.
mcv 8y ago
Shipping cost can vary a lot, though. Especially in the internet age where it's easy to order things abroad. When I order from a Dutch webshop or from amazon.de, shipping is generally free, but when I order from amazon.com, it's not. So that means the webship has to know where I live and what kind of shipping I want. Granted, Amazon probably already knows this, but when I use a new webshop, they can't know this, and I don't want to have to tell them before I can see the price of their items.
- mikeash 8y ago
  What use is it to see the price of the item without knowing the shipping cost? It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that they need to know where you live and what kind of shipping you want before they can show you the real price.
  - mcv 8y ago
    > What use is it to see the price of the item without knowing the shipping cost? It's better than not knowing the price until I tell them where I live. > It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that they need to know where you live and what kind of shipping you want before they can show you the real price. If they want to include shipping in the price, then yes, they need to know where I live before they can tell me the price. So either they can't tell me the price, or they will change the price after they learn where I live, or they won't change the price and lose money on it, or they may refuse to ship to me. None of these options are in any way reasonable, except maybe not telling me the price, but that's extremely annoying. Better to not include shipping, tell me shipping is not included, and add shipping later. That way, shipping cost can be the real shipping cost, rather than shipping cost for 1 item times the number of items, which is likely to be more than the real shipping costs.
    - mikeash 8y ago
      My point is that the only “price” that matters in the end is the total amount you pay, with shipping. If shipping is separate then they’re not really showing you “the price,” they’re just showing you a somewhat arbitrary number that sets a floor on the actual price you’ll pay.
chippy 8y ago
>I actually prefer this Yes, this is why these tactics work. The human brain is being hacked by shady practices.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  Or, you know, it is actually preferable for rational reasons, rather than an indicator that your brain has been hacked. You go to the store and the price you see is the price you pay (well, those of us not stuck in a sales tax state), so it's nice to be able to shop the same way online. I know the shipping is baked in, but I don't have to factor it in separately. I just shop by price.
- Spivak 8y ago
  I don't think it's shady. - If you return the item you will be refunded the total purchase price instead of the price of the item sans shipping. - You know how much it will actually cost to own the item when its in your cart instead of hiding the cost until the last second when you've already committed.
chrisan 8y ago
When comparing it also makes you realize how much Amazon Prime "free shipping" is a joke sometimes since they just roll the cost into the product. "Why am I paying for prime?"
- patates 8y ago
  You are paying for it so you don't get charged for the shipping again. It's very, very shady.
- rootusrootus 8y ago
  The original proposition was that Prime wasn't geting you free shipping -- that pre-dates Prime -- it was getting you upgraded to two-day service rather than the standard wait-a-week ground shipping.
vxNsr 8y ago
Me too, as it usually indicates the store also has a generous return policy which is a must shopping online. Stores that "don't charge" for shipping are much more likely to not be stingy in other areas of the consumer experience as well.

dalai 8y ago

On the other hand, if you want to buy two of them they cost $20 + $3 S&H or $26 with free shipping.

glastra 8y ago
S&H is not always fixed-rate. In fact, "handling" two items should cost more. Shipping more weight should also cost more.
- elcomet 8y ago
  More than one shipping cost, yes, but it should be less than twice the shipping cost. Otherwise you could just order the items separately.
- qrbLPHiKpiux 8y ago
  I bet a lot of people do not take into account of the time, fuel, wear-and-tear of their car to go get their wares.
theli0nheart 8y ago
Why is this surprising? Undesirable, sure, but shipping additional things costs additional money.
- newnewpdro 8y ago
  That greatly depends on the things.
  - theli0nheart 8y ago
    What's your point?
    - newnewpdro 8y ago
      That your generalization does not generally apply, especially in an era of extremely miniaturized popular goods. Consolidating the S&H into the item cost makes sense for a subset of situations sure, but there's a huge set where it's exploitive. Amazon orders for example often can amortize S&H costs by shipping a single package containing multiple items sharing a common origin. I'd argue that's true for a huge portion of Amazon orders. It's simply not a good generalization.
      - theli0nheart 8y ago
        I disagree that it's exploitative. It's simply easier. Recalculating shipping costs on a combinatatorial basis has a nonzero cost from a programming and operations POV. Having a fixed per-item shipping costs lowers overhead drastically, especially for smaller sellers. Large sellers obviously have different customers and I doubt they get away with just multiplying PER_ITEM_SHIPPING_COST X NUMBER_OF_ITEMS (I didn't think that was the focus on the OP though). I also disagree that it does not generally apply. Given two items, A & B, you might have the following total: A_shipping + A_price = A_total B_shipping + B_price = B_total What you're saying is that: AB_shipping + A_price + B_price < A_total + B_total But what I'm saying is that: A_shipping < AB_shipping B_shipping < AB_shipping In other words, no matter what, shipping more items does cost more than shipping less items. So it makes sense to charge more for it. How much more is a matter of economics.
- zulln 8y ago
  Not as linear though.

rplnt 8y ago

That's true. But every time you buy two mugs you subsidize the shipping for people buying just one. There are better ways to solve the "hidden shipping costs" issue than tack the price to every item.

lgbr 8y ago

Furthermore, if you want to return the item, you're entitled to a full refund, rather than being forced to pay for shipping for an item you didn't want.

adriveatrain 8y ago

It does undermine the value logistics / delivery companies provide to the customers. An industry that works on 3% margins already.

mcv 8y ago

Shipping cost can vary a lot, though. Especially in the internet age where it's easy to order things abroad. When I order from a Dutch webshop or from amazon.de, shipping is generally free, but when I order from amazon.com, it's not. So that means the webship has to know where I live and what kind of shipping I want. Granted, Amazon probably already knows this, but when I use a new webshop, they can't know this, and I don't want to have to tell them before I can see the price of their items.

mikeash 8y ago
What use is it to see the price of the item without knowing the shipping cost? It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that they need to know where you live and what kind of shipping you want before they can show you the real price.
- mcv 8y ago
  > What use is it to see the price of the item without knowing the shipping cost? It's better than not knowing the price until I tell them where I live. > It seems to me that what you’re really saying is that they need to know where you live and what kind of shipping you want before they can show you the real price. If they want to include shipping in the price, then yes, they need to know where I live before they can tell me the price. So either they can't tell me the price, or they will change the price after they learn where I live, or they won't change the price and lose money on it, or they may refuse to ship to me. None of these options are in any way reasonable, except maybe not telling me the price, but that's extremely annoying. Better to not include shipping, tell me shipping is not included, and add shipping later. That way, shipping cost can be the real shipping cost, rather than shipping cost for 1 item times the number of items, which is likely to be more than the real shipping costs.
  - mikeash 8y ago
    My point is that the only “price” that matters in the end is the total amount you pay, with shipping. If shipping is separate then they’re not really showing you “the price,” they’re just showing you a somewhat arbitrary number that sets a floor on the actual price you’ll pay.

chippy 8y ago

>I actually prefer this Yes, this is why these tactics work. The human brain is being hacked by shady practices.

rootusrootus 8y ago
Or, you know, it is actually preferable for rational reasons, rather than an indicator that your brain has been hacked. You go to the store and the price you see is the price you pay (well, those of us not stuck in a sales tax state), so it's nice to be able to shop the same way online. I know the shipping is baked in, but I don't have to factor it in separately. I just shop by price.
Spivak 8y ago
I don't think it's shady. - If you return the item you will be refunded the total purchase price instead of the price of the item sans shipping. - You know how much it will actually cost to own the item when its in your cart instead of hiding the cost until the last second when you've already committed.

chrisan 8y ago

When comparing it also makes you realize how much Amazon Prime "free shipping" is a joke sometimes since they just roll the cost into the product. "Why am I paying for prime?"

patates 8y ago
You are paying for it so you don't get charged for the shipping again. It's very, very shady.
rootusrootus 8y ago
The original proposition was that Prime wasn't geting you free shipping -- that pre-dates Prime -- it was getting you upgraded to two-day service rather than the standard wait-a-week ground shipping.

vxNsr 8y ago

Me too, as it usually indicates the store also has a generous return policy which is a must shopping online. Stores that "don't charge" for shipping are much more likely to not be stingy in other areas of the consumer experience as well.