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Aren't most of the alternatives to Huawei EU companies? e.g. Ericsson, Nokia? If they are acknowledging there is a risk, why not buy from them instead?

by creato 8y ago

setquk 8y ago
Probably costs more and after the recent cell network outage here, caused by a certificate failure, I think they prioritise availability over absolute security. Huawei seem to produce some half decent stuff aside from the security issue.
- kingosticks 8y ago
  It's also a message to those EU companies they need to remain price competitive. You can surely get a better deal if you have Nokia and historically-cheap Huawei battling for your order.
  - Dahoon 8y ago
    The thing is this isn't cheap Chinese gadgets. The main thing I see mentioned is that Huawei is years ahead. Being cheaper is just icing on the cake. Huawei use a lot more on R&D than the competition.
    - kingosticks 8y ago
      Oh no, I was thinking about IP infrastructure. Core/edge routers and the like. I don't see any technological advantage they have in that market but I could be wrong as I have not seen any product comparisons in a while. As I understood it, their wins are due to their pricing.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
entity345 8y ago
There is always a risk from buying technology from suppliers you have no full control over. This is Brexit. The UK is trying not to depend on the EU too much either and are actively trying to diversify.
- notzuck 8y ago
  Are you claiming security policy is being driven by a need to pull back from the EU? Who do you know at GCHQ?
  - entity345 8y ago
    I am claiming that the UK has to be realistic. The whole security story around Huawei is largely overblown and driven by the US's increasing realisation that they won't be the undisputed top dog for long. The UK is not in that situation. They are a medium power leaving the largest trading bloc in the world and they need China. As such they need to be realistic when assessing risk and have a pragmatic approach.
    - roca 8y ago
      Overblown? Does anyone seriously believe that if Xi Jinping orders Huawei to deploy a backdoor, they will resist?
      - entity345 8y ago
        As I mentioned in another comment this is a risk that exists for every supplier that you haven't got full control over. As someone else further mentioned, the UK has setup an evaluation centre with Huawei where GCHQ experts check Huawei products before deployment. Again, let's not pretend that the the US are in good faith here even if security should of course always be considered. This is an obvious FUD campaign to slow the rise of a new superpower and of a major competitor in a sensitive industry.
        creato 8y ago
Dahoon 8y ago
Two things I have seen mentioned from industry people: Huawei is a lot better in R&D (use more money than Apple) and getting some feature you want deployed is easier and faster. Secondly Huawei is not only cheaper but also higher quality. I know this doesn't fit with the witch hunt on Chinese companies the US is running but there you have it.
- justinjlynn 8y ago
  Not only that, they also heavily benefit from the R&D done at other companies. Add in generous subsidies from their parent government and you have a very attractive commercial offering, certainly. Indeed, this kind of money is rarely invested without a known, outsized, expected return and, in this, I seriously doubt Huawei and their owners are lacking in intelligence. I mean, who do we think they are - Winnie-the-Pooh?
  - bwilli123 8y ago
    Not only that, Boeing and Airbus also heavily benefit from the R&D done at other companies. Add in generous subsidies from their parent government and you have a very attractive commercial offering, certainly. Indeed, this kind of money is rarely invested without a known, outsized, expected return and, in this, I seriously doubt Boeing and Airbus and their owners are lacking in intelligence. I mean, who do we think they are - Winnie-the-Pooh?
    - justinjlynn 8y ago
      Power is as power does, or so I've been told.
  - Dahoon 8y ago
    Contrary to popular belief, Huawei isn't some big evil entity more or less under the thump of the Chinese state. It is owned by 80.000 of their own employees.
    - justinjlynn 8y ago

Aren't most of the alternatives to Huawei EU companies? e.g. Ericsson, Nokia? If they are acknowledging there is a risk, why not buy from them instead?

by creato 8y ago

Aren't most of the alternatives to Huawei EU companies? e.g. Ericsson, Nokia? If they are acknowledging there is a risk, why not buy from them instead?

setquk 8y ago

Probably costs more and after the recent cell network outage here, caused by a certificate failure, I think they prioritise availability over absolute security. Huawei seem to produce some half decent stuff aside from the security issue.

kingosticks 8y ago
It's also a message to those EU companies they need to remain price competitive. You can surely get a better deal if you have Nokia and historically-cheap Huawei battling for your order.
- Dahoon 8y ago
  The thing is this isn't cheap Chinese gadgets. The main thing I see mentioned is that Huawei is years ahead. Being cheaper is just icing on the cake. Huawei use a lot more on R&D than the competition.
  - kingosticks 8y ago
    Oh no, I was thinking about IP infrastructure. Core/edge routers and the like. I don't see any technological advantage they have in that market but I could be wrong as I have not seen any product comparisons in a while. As I understood it, their wins are due to their pricing.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]

entity345 8y ago

There is always a risk from buying technology from suppliers you have no full control over. This is Brexit. The UK is trying not to depend on the EU too much either and are actively trying to diversify.

notzuck 8y ago
Are you claiming security policy is being driven by a need to pull back from the EU? Who do you know at GCHQ?
- entity345 8y ago
  I am claiming that the UK has to be realistic. The whole security story around Huawei is largely overblown and driven by the US's increasing realisation that they won't be the undisputed top dog for long. The UK is not in that situation. They are a medium power leaving the largest trading bloc in the world and they need China. As such they need to be realistic when assessing risk and have a pragmatic approach.
  - roca 8y ago
    Overblown? Does anyone seriously believe that if Xi Jinping orders Huawei to deploy a backdoor, they will resist?
    - entity345 8y ago
      As I mentioned in another comment this is a risk that exists for every supplier that you haven't got full control over. As someone else further mentioned, the UK has setup an evaluation centre with Huawei where GCHQ experts check Huawei products before deployment. Again, let's not pretend that the the US are in good faith here even if security should of course always be considered. This is an obvious FUD campaign to slow the rise of a new superpower and of a major competitor in a sensitive industry.
      - creato 8y ago

Dahoon 8y ago

Two things I have seen mentioned from industry people: Huawei is a lot better in R&D (use more money than Apple) and getting some feature you want deployed is easier and faster. Secondly Huawei is not only cheaper but also higher quality. I know this doesn't fit with the witch hunt on Chinese companies the US is running but there you have it.

justinjlynn 8y ago
Not only that, they also heavily benefit from the R&D done at other companies. Add in generous subsidies from their parent government and you have a very attractive commercial offering, certainly. Indeed, this kind of money is rarely invested without a known, outsized, expected return and, in this, I seriously doubt Huawei and their owners are lacking in intelligence. I mean, who do we think they are - Winnie-the-Pooh?
- bwilli123 8y ago
  Not only that, Boeing and Airbus also heavily benefit from the R&D done at other companies. Add in generous subsidies from their parent government and you have a very attractive commercial offering, certainly. Indeed, this kind of money is rarely invested without a known, outsized, expected return and, in this, I seriously doubt Boeing and Airbus and their owners are lacking in intelligence. I mean, who do we think they are - Winnie-the-Pooh?
  - justinjlynn 8y ago
    Power is as power does, or so I've been told.
- Dahoon 8y ago
  Contrary to popular belief, Huawei isn't some big evil entity more or less under the thump of the Chinese state. It is owned by 80.000 of their own employees.
  - justinjlynn 8y ago